Is 4 kids too many?

[Mumsie2024]

Hi, would like to know your thoughts?
is 4 kids a step too far? Currently have 3 kids and thinking I’d like a 4th but not sure if it’s hormones!
What's the verdict?

Re house deposits, I have 3 DC and a lump sum, therefore it gets divided by 3 and would be the same if I had 4. It doesn’t actually cost me more money.

No. Nor did I @IVFeltbetter

We were in a different financial position 11 years ago when we had our last and the question of whether it was affordable was just about maintaining our level of comfort and paying the bills.

It seems an incredibly high bar that attempts to make a virtue of being incredibly cautious and pessimistic.

I have three DC personally 4 would have been too many for me. We can afford the 3 we have (although they won't be getting a house deposit each!)

Well, how about a pony, do they at least have a pony each or are they to live in abject poverty? 😁

I have 4.
The only time it's a pain is on holiday, even a "modest" holiday ends up mega pricey because of the need for so many flights, rooms etc. Our eldest 3 are ND (autistic, ADHD, autistic in that order) and oldest 2 cannot share a room despite being same sex.

I am extremely glad I didn't stop at 2. My eldest 2 would never have spoken to each other in adulthood. They are complete opposites who completely don't understand and rather dislike each other. Number 3 is the glue of the family; he gets along with 1 and 2. Number 4 is NT and the organiser, competent and confident.

Financially it's fine. We have savings, can afford uni for those going. We have never really thought that skiing holidays and top of the range cars, or designer clothes type of stuff is important. We are probably a bit scruffy. I drive a big Skoda. We mostly holiday in the UK. No one has private violin lessons - though if they had really wanted to, they could have. I don't feel over stretched. I don't think the kids feel under loved or under supported. They certainly are immensely adored.

House deposit wise - they each get 10k on their 21st birthday to use for their future as a bit of a bump start. Any of them can come home to live whenever they want. We will help with things like driving lessons. No one has bought a house yet but I guess we might help out a bit, but I kind of think that starting modest is ok. Luckily we don't live in London and if you want to buy, and can only afford a one bed flat in a less wonderful area, that's where you start. No one needs to start in a 3 bed semi with integrated appliances.

Well, with each additional child, you have to consider the wellbeing of the existing child/ren.

And yes, you do consider wellbeing across the child's llifetime. Often you just have minimal control over adulthood.

Based on current trends, compound interest, and lost earnings when the kids are little, a hypothetical extra child makes the difference between my kids owning their own home and renting for life.

There is a difference between a pony and having a roof over their head.

You'll have to ask renters if they consider it a life not worth living? I'm not sure they'd agree with you.

Teenagers are surprisingly needy in terms of time and emotional support. We have 3 and feel spread thin at times dealing with it all. I think we made the right decision not to have more. You need to make sure that you think beyond the cute baby and toddler stage. What will things look like when they are all teenagers.

I've found the teenage stage the easiest of them all. It was the baby stage the was my limiting factor. I could have a tribe of kids if they all arrived at the door at two years old and sleeping through the night

I guess I wanted to make the point that it’s not just about the money. When the teenage hormones hit, they need you as a parent and it can be really hard work.

I've had 6, 2 have left home 1 to be in the royal navy, 1 is about to leave to go in navy, youngest is 3, so if there's a good few years between them all you don't spread yourself to thin and the moneys not such a big issue.

I'm not saying it's the only factor. But I rented for a very long time. Unless you are somewhere like Germany or France, with laws that favour tennants, it's not fun. I ended up moving four times in four years. Not great with a young family.

Say I have one child. I know that I can afford to provide them with a nest egg that will give them an easy life. I ask myself if I want a second. My having a second means that I can no longer afford this help, which would mean that the child I already have will never own their own home. That's a big impact on the future of an existing child.

You've already decided that your child will be incapable of ever getting on the housing ladder without your help?

Anyway, it's absolutely your choice to have one child who you can support into adulthood without compromise.

Expecting others to have your same level of caution and pessimism and agree that they should factor in the housing cost of their adult children at their conception is a bit silly.

The op said finances are not a factor - she is clearly happy that a new child would meet her threshold of affordability.

Yes, I had a strong reaction to that too. Really creepy and disgusting.

Expecting others to have your same level of caution and pessimism and agree that they should factor in the housing cost of their adult children at their conception is a bit silly.

@Upstartled It is silly only because you refuse to acknowledge how unequal the playing field is for @LameBorzoi's dc compared to yours.

But at least you get your 4 children (or how many you have) because it suits your level of affordability.

It is what the parents want, isn't it. Not a consideration for the child x 4 who at 40 has a crushing student debt and is still renting v. their peers who is mid-way through paying off their mortgage with no uni loan. It isn't about how good a job they can get on graduation. Unlike my time, it is now is very difficult for Gen Z without an early financial leg up from BOMAD.

Your dcs' lives are of course worth living, just not lived as well as @LameBorzoi. All your choice, but don't dismiss such financial considerations because it does not suit your narrative of a big 'happy' family.

I completely agree. If someone has 4 kids , it's unlikely that they will all go to uni anyway. And if they do decide to go it's not on the parents to pay for all of it. It's good for young adults to have part time jobs to fund themselves. And for those who live in cities with unis or even those who can commute daily from rural areas dc will be able to live at home so there wont be any rent costs. Where I live there is a big uni and two tecs aswell as a diploma college. It's ridiculous to assume that everyone's situation is the same.

Your dcs' lives are of course worth living, just not lived as well as @LameBorzoi.

What you have missed here, in your attempt to make your point personal, is the difference between my own capacity to support my children and my opinion that people shouldn't be nagged and heckled to consider a house deposit as a necessity in considering whether they can afford a child.

So should poor people who don’t even have their own house deposit not have DC?

Agree with that, our birth rate is awful! I have 3 and just think about all my friends who have zero or 1, and then I don’t feel bad.

OP 4 would be way too many for me personally but if you’re non-frazzled with 3 and have enough time, money and space then why not?

Dont understand why posters are getting so riled. Do you not read the newspapers? Our economy is very very different to what it was when we were starting out. Parents have to pay far more for university than our parents did and that will be going up as university funding is screwed.

Dh and I had minimal financial help from our parents to buy our first property but frankly we didn’t need it. As a young couple double income we easily got a mortgage on a flat in a nice part of London. No way our equivalents now could do that without parental help. No way.

We have 4

Although parental care is more stretched they do have each other. They’re supportive and fiercely protective of each other and very close, even now as adults.

They did all go to University

I agree here.
Whether a child comes from a large or small family, this has little to do with whether they will go to University or not. It’s also dependent on other factors such as (only to name a few): academic interests, career aspirations, motivation, dedication, academic ability etc etc. Financial affordability to go to university is not the only factor either as there is lots of help/ support out there to get someone to university if this is what they want. All of the above debates is not a decisive factor to have another child IMO.

My four are adults and are very close to each other. Unusually so think. They were born in fairly quick succession so it was a bit hectic at times. I loved it though. We had enough to have a cleaner and to not worry about the extra costs. Four feels like a lot often.
I think it's mostly down to luck though as it depends on the temperament of the kids you get. Look at the millions of threads where posters dont get on with their siblings on Mumsnet.

That is fine and noted. I don't need to personalise it. Irrespective of what your personal situation is, my point remains.

Forgot to quote. My post is in response to Upstartled · Today 12:20