Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Family planning

Mumsnet doesn't verify the qualifications of users. If you have medical concerns, please consult a healthcare professional.

Is 4 kids too many?

251 replies

Mumsie2024 · 14/02/2025 23:52

Hi, would like to know your thoughts?
is 4 kids a step too far? Currently have 3 kids and thinking I’d like a 4th but not sure if it’s hormones!
What's the verdict?

OP posts:
Upstartled · 15/02/2025 10:27

Global fertility rates are below replacement levels. All the additional growth that we'll see in global population levels will be entirely down to increasing longevity as more and more people acquire access to basic provisions in life and healthcare.

From here on in we are going to see dramatic drops in fertility rates. Especially in developed countries.

WaitingForMojo · 15/02/2025 10:28

I have four. It’s brilliant. Not for everyone, and nobody can tell you whether it’s right for you.

It has implications in terms of bigger house, bigger car etc. And they’re expensive. But they are four wonderful people and I love it.

There are advantages and disadvantages to being part of a big family. Meeting conflicting needs can be hard. Logistics are complicated sometimes. It makes us very busy!

123456thu · 15/02/2025 10:36

Good side of having 4 (3,4,7,9)
They all entertain each other.
Everyday is like a mini party.
Each of them are different people and being different things.
Theres a whole lot of love in our house!
Noone really pairs off.

Bad side.
Illness takes forever to get round the house, I spend a month in the house last month with sick kids, literally not leaving the house (sick bug)
It's expensive. A day to a good softplay can be £60/70 without thinking of eating.
You have mum guilt a lot. But we 121 evening/day out every so often which is lovely.
Say good bye to a sex life.. there's no time lol

You need a 7 seater car and a good husband, who's willing to pick up the slack when your exhausted and Vis Versa.
We survive on my husband's wage, it's not huge but doable. Some months are harder than others. Weve only ever done UK holidays (caravans/Butlins) but managed to book Disney this year after a few sacrifices. I wouldn't change it though lol

Lovelysummerdays · 15/02/2025 10:40

I have four and it’s a lot. I’m was aiming for three and then twins. Can you imagine going for four and ending up with five? Lots of expenses in terms of bigger car, always need two rooms on holiday. Need more bedrooms. I got divorced, I think we were really stressed and tired all the time and the relationship died.

They are all fabulous though. You need very deep pockets! Their Dad does half of childrens needs and costs. I’d really struggle if it was just me.

I do know someone with six who makes it look idyllic she’s a sahm and they have a full time nanny. He does something financial but mainly works from their massive country pile. The children are very well behaved. So bc possibly depends on circumstances.

wooliegloves · 15/02/2025 10:45

It's not just you having one extra though is it? There's 8 BILLION people on earth and it's just not sustainable.

So you want to cull older people? A largely ageing population isn't sustainable either...

Not Africa. We still hardly need more people just for the sake of it though do we

@Developedanillness You think a child in Sub-Saharan Africa has a bigger carbon footprint than you? 😆

Upstartled · 15/02/2025 10:55

Do you know that Europe has had more deaths than births since 2012?

Mumsie2024 · 15/02/2025 11:48

@stanleypops66 this is a good question which I ask myself. I have 3 wonderful boys and while I know you can’t plan it, the opportunity to have a girl would be amazing. I would love to see my boys growing up with a younger sister to protect. A 4th child would bring a sort of balance so my middle wouldn’t be the middle child. I still feel like there’s one more person missing in our life (but no more than 4!). Finance isn’t a problem as we both earn good salaries and have flexible jobs around kids therefore we don’t use excessive childcare so we can spend time with our kids.

OP posts:
Mumsie2024 · 15/02/2025 11:50

@wooliegloves @Developedanillness i will shock you all…. My husband is an airline pilot… boom!!

OP posts:
EmmaEmEmz · 15/02/2025 11:51

We have four.

no regrets here

Panicmode1 · 15/02/2025 12:07

We have four. It's amazing, wonderful, crazy, busy - and I wouldn't change a thing. But they are very expensive. We currently have 2 at uni, and 2 at secondary. We have always had a very comfortable income, but DH was made redundant in the summer and has yet to find a job, so whilst we are ok for now, it's starting to get a bit nervewracking....

(I gave up my professional career after our fourth - and was a SAHM for a while, which I absolutely loved. I did a lot of volunteering and things whilst I wasn't doing paid work, which has meant that I've managed to get a FT job within a week of DH being made redundant - albeit my salary is a third of what I used to earn..so I would say that if you don't work, make sure that you have a back up plan and a good pension - SORRY hadn't RTFT - so see that's not an issue!)

I would say that people forget that babies grow into large people - teenagers eat a lot, grow faster than weeds (our shoe bill was eyewatering for a while) and 4x sports and clubs, mobile phones, laptops, driving lessons, uni fees, holidays etc is all very expensive; yes nursery fees are eyewatering too, but they do stop once they are at school - (school fees excepted), so if you have a large family, the costs don't seem to go down.

As to the environmental argument - we have friends who have one child, drive a 4x4 each, go skiing in the winter and long haul in the summer and I would guess their impact is greater. We barely use the car, recycle as much as possible, pass down clothes etc, very rarely fly anywhere as a family (we had a long haul hol over Xmas but that was exceptional) and train/drive to Europe once a year. Yes, we do use more water etc, but a house is heated and lit whether there are 3 people or 6 people in it.

OwlInTheOak · 15/02/2025 12:08

Whatevershallidowithmylife · 14/02/2025 23:59

3 too many if you care about the environment.

1 is too many if you care about the environment

IVFeltbetter · 15/02/2025 12:48

My conclusion is I don’t “care” about the environment when I read these threads.

CheeseyOnionPie · 15/02/2025 13:09

No but one more plastic bottle in landfill doesn’t either. It’s the accumulated impact of everyone having just one more that impacts the environment.
Also, the world’s population is now just over 8 billion vs being just over 6 billion in 2000. Not sure where your belief that we are becoming under populated comes from.

YourSpryWriter · 15/02/2025 13:21

I'm the oldest of four and think it's a good number. My mum said three was harder as one of us was always left out but as a four we either all played together, on our own or in pairs.

Mumsie2024 · 15/02/2025 13:28

Here’s some facts (but we are digressing from my original discussion):
The belief that we are becoming underpopulated mainly comes from demographic trends in developed countries and concerns about long-term economic and social stability. Heres why some experts, including Elon Musk, warn of an impending population collapse:

  1. Falling Birth Rates

Many countries are experiencing below-replacement fertility rates (less than 2.1 children per woman, which is needed to maintain population levels). For example:
Japan: ~1.3 births per woman
South Korea: ~0.8 births per woman (lowest in the world)
Italy, Germany, and much of Europe: Around 1.4-1.6 births per woman
China: 1.0-1.2 births per woman (leading to a shrinking workforce)

This trend is caused by factors like urbanization, economic pressures, changing social norms, and increased access to birth control.

  1. Aging Populations

With fewer young people being born, the proportion of elderly people is increasing. This leads to:
A shrinking workforce, meaning fewer people to support retirees
Rising healthcare and pension costs
Economic stagnation due to lower consumer demand and productivity

  1. Population Decline in Key Countries

Some of the worlds largest economies (Japan, China, South Korea, Italy) are now seeing absolute population declines, meaning more people are dying than being born. China, for instance, had its first recorded population drop in 60 years in 2022.

  1. Economic and Technological Concerns
With fewer workers, economies may slow down due to labor shortages. Governments may struggle to fund pensions and healthcare for aging populations. Some argue that AI and automation could offset labor shortages, but others worry about long-term impacts on economic growth.

Does this affect the whole world?
some regions, especially in Africa and parts of South Asia, still have high birth rates. However, because the global economy depends heavily on countries with falling birth rates (Europe, China, the U.S.), their decline could have widespread effects.

Bottom Line
The belief in underpopulation is about the world as a whole shrinking just yet. Its more about how major economies are heading toward a demographic crisis, where fewer young workers will struggle to support aging populations.

OP posts:
wooliegloves · 15/02/2025 13:30

@CheeseyOnionPie Do you think that's due to 2billion more babies?

blueshoes · 15/02/2025 13:34

WaitingForMojo · 15/02/2025 10:26

Who else’s benefit is a decision to have kids ever for?!

The kids who did not ask to be born but have to live in their parents' construct with limited finances and time.

Mumsie2024 · 15/02/2025 13:36

@blueshoes what a horrible comment to make

OP posts:
WaitingForMojo · 15/02/2025 13:36

blueshoes · 15/02/2025 13:34

The kids who did not ask to be born but have to live in their parents' construct with limited finances and time.

My point is that a decision to have children (however many) is always made for our own benefit, because we want them. It’s not an altruistic decision.

WaitingForMojo · 15/02/2025 13:37

blueshoes · 15/02/2025 13:34

The kids who did not ask to be born but have to live in their parents' construct with limited finances and time.

Bit of a generalisation there!

Mrsgreen100 · 15/02/2025 13:38

The world is grossly overpopulated, there are so many children in care etc
have you thought of adopting or fostering, if your need to nurture is strong.

blueshoes · 15/02/2025 13:44

WaitingForMojo · 15/02/2025 13:37

Bit of a generalisation there!

A bit of denial there? Only the parents' wishes come into the picture? Unfortunately, children don't have enough of a say in how many siblings their parents decide to bring into the picture but they are deeply affected.

You are ignoring that 4 children is more than most parents' finances can comfortably stretch to particularly in today's inheritocracy. How does a parent give enough time to a child who is struggling or who has SEN.

You only have to read some of the posters on this thread.

Read the threads where posters who are a child in a big family who decide to have fewer or no children as a result of growing up in a big family. The older children become surrogate parents.

Of course, that only happens to other people's families, never mine if I want a 4th ...

allthemiddlechildrenoftheworld · 15/02/2025 13:47

@Mumsie2024 if you can financially and mentally support 4 children without needing financila help from government and without a husband then go for it!!!

Snugglemuffins4me · 15/02/2025 13:48

We have just had baby 4 6 months ago . I’m so happy we did . I’m home with them all and financially we can do it and have money for savings , clubs and holidays . We already had a 7 seater and a room free in our house . It is a very busy house but it’s everything we both wanted . Our eldest asked could we have another baby but we are happily done with 4 .

Mumsie2024 · 15/02/2025 13:53

@Snugglemuffins4me that’s lovely to hear. My youngest is 5 months, what are you age gaps do you mind me asking?

OP posts:
Swipe left for the next trending thread