Daughter not made a sixer when a younger child was

[tomtom88]

Ok so please be kind.

Daughter is in Brownies, the old leaders left recently and a new leader took over. I appreciate all the leaders are volunteers.

Without warning - the new leader allocated sixer and seconder roles, with my daughter being given a seconder role in a group of 2 where the other girl was the same age. In another group a child a year younger, who is a lovely girl but very scatty was given the sixer role. At the meeting brown owl said these are not permanent roles because sometimes I change things and swap things about.

Daughter gutted not to be a sixer.

I messaged brown owl in a very polite way thanking her for taking over the group, expressing that my daughter was disappointed, and drawing her attention to the fact a younger girl. I asked are these decisions permanent (she has implied they were not at the session)
Anyway she got back and said, oh your daughter will get the opportunity "at some point" eg not specified so could mean never if they cannot expand the group and then stated " she couldn't now take the opportunity to be a sixer off one of the other girls" although obviously by chosing the other girls and not being flexible she has effectively taken the opportunity to be a sixer from my daughter. I would have thought she should have given thought before allocating the younger girl in yr3 to be a sixer and perhaps swapped the girls over in their groups so the yr3 became the seconder and my daughter the sixer int he other group.

Long read - any thoughts

Or maybe the life lesson is how to work with a boss, who is sometimes scatty 🤷‍♀️

You have no idea how long she'll be sixer for. She might stop going

Sounds like the scatty one was given it because it will give her the most developmental potential.

Brownies is surely supposed to be fun, not competitive?

Make this is a great opportunity to teach your DD about making the most out of a disappointment. She'll get far more out of that long term.

I was a seconder, small village, loved it, didn't scar me or traumatise me not being sixer, you need to let it go and get a grip tbh

This!

I am not unreasonable I understand there would be circumstances where daughter would never become a sixer if a larger group with lots of children before her.

Its really the fact that having said in the meeting that it was all flexible and having already offered to swap groups the leader felt she could not take the opportunity off others but in her decision making had taken the opportunity off my daugher.

I am beginning to wonder is the new leader a touch high handed and insensitive and my daughter may not come off well from this.

You’re right, it wasn’t thought through - there should have just been one sixer and one seconder in a pack of 8, and your daughter may not have been either, and maybe never would have had the chance to be either. Given they are in a six of two (you see how ridiculous that sounds) she’ll actually never get the opportunity to be a real seconder or sixer as there is no six to lead.

But as it would be unfair to now take sixer or seconder off anyone, then it’s probably best to keep it how it is.

FWIW, I begged my mum to take me to Brownies but we couldn’t afford the subs. I am now very successful in my career, an award winning high earner, with a strong social circle and happy marriage. I wouldn’t say not going to Brownies was a negative for me, in the same way not being a Sixer isn’t a negative for your daughter. If anything it might be a positive in teaching her resilience and how the world actually works.

This is what I was going to post, although I didn't leave. It completely dented my confidence

So the one person, who agrees with you, is right? Out of everyone who has posted on this thread?

Have you volunteered to be a Brown Owl, or simply to help out, as you seem to have very strong opinions about how things should be done, I'm sure your practical support would be much appreciated.

I think that is the point op is trying to make

This is not some kind of parochial vendetta being served via your daughter.

You have to take a breather and back away from the Brownie situation. What usually provides you with a bit of perspective when you've got over focused on something and you can't stop spiralling and overthinking?

Do that for a bit instead.

You don’t see how immediately reassigning roles and taking the sixer position away from a child who had just been allocated it would be far more damaging and unfair to that child?

The leader probably meant they could change things around next term, not immediately.

And me too, although I did stay at brownies, but remember being mortified at the time.
With hindsight I think I was looked over because, although older, I was shy, quiet and lacked confidence as a child.

It probably would have done if your mother had taken vehement offence on your behalf. I think it's dangerous to project adult feelings on to children who don't seem to mind.

My goodness- It’s Brownies!
Parents interfering and complaining never used to be a problem.
Not every girl can be a Sixer, Just as not every girl can get to play Mary or be an Angel in the Nativity, either.
I never got to play Mary as had blonde hair, and Mary was always given to girls with long brown hair.
Parents don’t do their kids any favours by being pushy.

Maybe “scatty” girl is best suited to job!

Then do the poor volunteer a favour, and leave. If you keep up like this, trust me, she will be eternally grateful. You obviously don't want to give up your time and support the pack, and you are obviously adamant your DD is more important than the whole group. It won't end well, so just quit now.

Having something given to you and then immediately taken away through no fault of your own is far more unfair and damaging to a child than not getting it in the first place for unclear reasons.

Of course the leader could not immediately take the sixer role away from one girl, just because another girl’s mum stamped her feet. I can’t believe you would be willing to inflict that on another child for the sake of your own. Why would your daughter even want that to happen to one of her friends? That’s not the kind of altruistic leadership I’d be looking for in a sixer if I was a brown owl!

This!
Stop worrying.
It's Brownies ... bigger challenges lie ahead I can promise you!
'Staff' (as you already pointed out - volunteers) are new and finding their feet/getting to know the kids.
It's about enjoying life with other kids/having fun/developing skills and interests.
It's not about status/being at the top of the tree etc ... plenty of time for that, sadly, for the future.

It isn't fair op but sometimes roles like this attract people who are on a bit of a power trip maybe?

I really hate this attitude. A volunteer leader makes a reasonable decision (two girls the same age, so nothing really to choose between them, especially if the leader is new) and suddenly they are on a bit of a power trip, because a parent doesn't agree with the decision?!

I'm a cub leader, and I'd hate to think that any parents thought this about me, just because of who I choose to be sixers and seconders.

I am beginning to wonder is the new leader a touch high handed and insensitive and my daughter may not come off well from this

You are really, really overthinking this. Just let them get on with it. Help your daughter to get over her disappointment. If you don't like how Brownies is being run, leave, or step up to help. Don't just complain.

And as for changing the time of the meeting - perhaps that suits the leader better? It has to work for her, after all, otherwise there's no meeting at all if it's not at a time that suits the leader. That's not being high handed, that's being practical. God forbid that she has other things going on in her life besides Brownies.

Well, @tomtom88 , why not do as many have suggested and become a Brownie volunteer. Then you can see exactly how challenging it is to run a club every week, and another parent can post on social media that decisions were made that appear to be high-handed, and will devastate their daughter's lives

Gosh,

I didn't think I would get so much anger for raising an issue that is important to my daughter and sharing it in this space to gauge views.

I do think some people just jump on the op without really attempting to understand why they posted

OP - you don’t seem to be grasping the fact that making your daughter a sixer now requires taking it away from another girl.

Its fine for that to happen after a term when the other girl has had the experience of being a sixer, and it’s time for someone else to have a turn, but it would be totally unfair for that to happen immediately.

Just as your daughter is upset about not getting the sixer role, the other girl would probably be just as upset about losing it just after being told that she’d got it, through no fault of her own.

Can I ask why you posted here, if you didn't want to consider other people's advice? You seem to be ignoring a lot of points people have made.

All this bollocks is why, as a Brownie leader for 10 years, I have ditched the six system completely. It wasn’t working even in a unit of 24 girls. The new program just doesn’t work that way.

Its also why I’m planning an exit, as I’m sick to death of parents. I don’t get paid, no leaders do, and I get very little support even when I say we will close then. Trying to get fees is like drawing blood from a stone.

Think on, op.

That poor woman. No wonder Girlguiding is so short of volunteers if people like you and @Saggyknickers just accuse anyone putting themselves forward to run a group of "being on a power trip", "high handed", "insensitive" - all because she’s made a decision you don’t like. Yes, you are unreasonable! Would you have preferred her not to volunteer? Or is it that you want her to volunteer but you want to then slag her off if you disagree with her?

I remember being disappointed not to be made a Sixer. I wasn’t traumatised or scarred for life.

There's only 8 girls in the pack? Weirdly small pack but 2 a "six" is really odd. If that's the case though everyone in the pack is permanently going to be a sixer or a seconder?!
I opened and ran both a Rainbow and a Brownie Group for 10 years and girls weren't placed as sixes/seconder due merely to age although we did have about 20 in a pack and a waiting list so had a larger pool to elect from. Maturity and behaviour comes into it. You sre bring unkind about the "scatty" child. Scatiness whatever that really means doesn't prevent s child from being a good Sixer.