Daughter not made a sixer when a younger child was

[tomtom88]

Ok so please be kind.

Daughter is in Brownies, the old leaders left recently and a new leader took over. I appreciate all the leaders are volunteers.

Without warning - the new leader allocated sixer and seconder roles, with my daughter being given a seconder role in a group of 2 where the other girl was the same age. In another group a child a year younger, who is a lovely girl but very scatty was given the sixer role. At the meeting brown owl said these are not permanent roles because sometimes I change things and swap things about.

Daughter gutted not to be a sixer.

I messaged brown owl in a very polite way thanking her for taking over the group, expressing that my daughter was disappointed, and drawing her attention to the fact a younger girl. I asked are these decisions permanent (she has implied they were not at the session)
Anyway she got back and said, oh your daughter will get the opportunity "at some point" eg not specified so could mean never if they cannot expand the group and then stated " she couldn't now take the opportunity to be a sixer off one of the other girls" although obviously by chosing the other girls and not being flexible she has effectively taken the opportunity to be a sixer from my daughter. I would have thought she should have given thought before allocating the younger girl in yr3 to be a sixer and perhaps swapped the girls over in their groups so the yr3 became the seconder and my daughter the sixer int he other group.

Long read - any thoughts

Yes I said my daughter would like to move to another six as she had no real connection with the other girl.

Also just to clarify - its a small group with 4 groups each with 2 in.

If you want to help promote your daughter's chances at Brownies, step up and help. It’s a completely thankless task being a scout/guide/boys brigade/girls' brigade leader and no parent ever wants to help out. Everyone cites jobs or other children, as if leaders don’t have those to deal with too.
And if the leader wants or needs to change the time or date of a meeting, then let them - you don’t know what else is going on in their life and if you don’t like it either remove your child or offer to help.

That makes no sense. So there are only 8 Brownies total - 4 groups of 2?

Will you be doing the same if she doesn't get promoted at work?

will impact my daughter negatively

my daughter was gutted

OK, but every girl who wanted to be a sixer and wasn't made one will also be gutted and negatively impacted. Why do you think your daughter should be more important, in the eyes of the Brown Owl, than them?

Why don’t you volunteer yourself - that might give you greater insight.

there will be all sorts of reasons behind this decision and the leader won’t discuss the other child with you.

Age isn’t a criteria.

your daughter will get her turn.

your job is to explain that to your child and help your child build resilience

I’m really confused! Are you saying there are only 8 brownies? Ie 4 groups (sixes) presumably each with a sized and a seconded? Who do they even six/second? If that’s the case this rally feels like a non-issue!

why do you think it would impact your daughter negatively? all it is is some more delegated work, nothing special.

also you're teaching her that dwelling and whining are normal things to do, it's best to move on and stop thinking about it, especially when it's something so tiny. she isn't going to be able to cope when she's rejected for things that are actually important in later life.

Your daughter would have to change what six she’s in (Gnomes, Imps, Elves etc) to become the sixer of that group.

Generally you will be in the same six the whole way through brownies, and your opportunity to be a sixer depends on the other girls in your individual six, not the pack as a whole.

My daughter is the same, younger girls are sixers and seconders in other sixes, but there’s no opportunity for her to do the role in her six as the existing sixer and seconder are the same age as she is and will move up to guides at the same time she does.

It’s just one of those things, I can’t believe you emailed about it!

Having been a guide leader for 8 years now (started my own unit), we initially used the patrol system but ended up abandoning it. First, I don't find the badge programme lends itself that well to patrols. Second, because we like to mix it up, and have different girls working together each week so they all get to know each other. Third, because, frankly, if I was going to put anyone in charge of patrols, it would be my extremely conscientious, organised and interested 10 and 11 year olds, not the 13 and 14 year olds who become a real handful by that age (often, they come back as D of E helpers at 15/16, and are absolutely wonderful).

I think, unless you are a volunteer and know how it all works on the inside and how the girls interact from session to session, it's not great to bulldoze your way in and demand to know why your daughter hasn't received the sixer position based on age. Wanting it is not the same as being suitable for it.

If it bothers you that much you should volunteer. Keeping pushing this and there will be no volunteers and no brownies for your daughter. The level of entitlement for your daughter is awful, if anything you are setting a bad example by complaining about this.

I am really not encouraging my daughter to dwell on it. I asked a reasonable question that I was entitled to ask. I asked in a polite reasoned way. I did not demand anything I was not rude.

Yes the group is 8 girls split into groups of 2 which again lends itself to more flexibility than say a large group.But does make you wonder why the need these roles at this point in time.

This in a nutshell.
Honestly op, you’re making far too much out of it. It’s Brownies.

I think it will negatively affect her because the decision taken and the inflexibility means my daughter will not have the experience of being a sixer that other girls have been given

Also just to clarify - its a small group with 4 groups each with 2 in.

This is a Brownie pack with 8 members? So there's four "sixers' and four "seconders" and that's it?

I think, with respect, that you need to offer to volunteer your services to Brown Owl if you feel she needs support and isn't getting things right, with the first priority being to increase the membership.

I know your DD was upset. This is not easy to sit with. But you must. You can't be chipping in with your fourpenneth every time things don't go as she would like. It's not sustainable and you can't do it forever, and it won't do her any favours.

It's obviously nonsensical if every parent expects their child to be a sixer, you must see that! So why do you think yours is especially deserving?

Your job as a parent isn't to change the world to keep your child happy; your job is to teach your child how to cope with life's disappointments, how to have realistic expectations, and how to be happy for others too.

Have close friends who volunteered with the scout movement for 26 years. They stopped recently as a result of pushy parents creating stress levels that they neither wanted to needed. For goodness sakes please let your daughter get used to life having disappointments some time. It will not always go your way and you wading in when it does not will not help their development.

Not really in a small group of differing ages it was perfectly possible to have achieved every girl being a sixer

I mean for them to have been a sixer during the course of their time at brownies obviously not all at once simultaneously.

That's not really setting them up for success in the real world though, is it.

every parent should be given a print out of that second paragraph and made to read it over and over til it sinks in!

If they’re actually pairs, not sixes, then none of the girls are getting the experience of being a sixer.

Not everyone can have everything. Such is life. Your job is to help her handle disappointment and learn to be resilient. Not press the call button and wait for service as soon as something comes her way she doesn't like.

I find that kind of response odd because is saying nothing setting them up for success either ?

When I was in brownies and then dd 30 years later it was the older girls who were made sixers and who'd been there the longest.

I don't think the fact someone is a volunteer means they should come in and start changing the rules to the detriment of others.

It isn't fair op but sometimes roles like this attract people who are on a bit of a power trip maybe?