Poolside Chat - parents of competitive swimmers continued

[Glittertwins]

Getting a bit close to the end of the previous one!

@Lastnamedidntstick - do you mean with regards to development camps and who gets on them?

Yes, amongst other things. generally selection and support seeming to be based on opinion rather than results or evidence.

some people getting support through injuries, others put on warning if they aren’t back competing.

ngb officials building relationships with some clubs and coaches but not others.

lots of little things we’ve noticed over the years. Some being given opportunities that others haven’t, access to more training, s&c etc

dc’s (few) interactions have always been negative- they always focus on what they think they won’t be able to do, rather than what they have achieved- as in yes you got into a final/medal, because x and y had bad comps. Next year you won’t be able to keep up so we are selecting x….

Yes, I understand what you mean. DS should have been on the distance camps as he met the criteria but again overlooked yet kids who have not had the same progress got on. Speaking to other parents, we are not alone in our view either. But, I do know of one swimmer who was continually overlooked and swam at Rio.

dc has recieved the message loud and clear unfortunately. It’s last year for juniors and he’s looking to the future.

he knows he’s in a hard place as he won’t get the support until he gets unequivocal results, but that getting those results will be harder as he won’t have the support others are getting- those that are on the “radar” know it and get a lot of input from ngb. Dc will need to train around a job or Uni after a’levels, while others at his level are training full time, with access to physio, s&c, performance reviews etc.

kid he trains has been offered a spot on the high performance squad at one of the big uni’s, despite not having the results others have had over the years.

he’s been offered a us uni scholarship, but been told GB don’t even look at anyone training abroad. Feels like he has to choose between education and potential GB…

I dunno. Feels like I’m imagining it a lot of the time. But I’ve also seen a few talented kids give up completely because they don’t get the selections they deserve.

It is brutal at uni level - we knew a distance swimmer who was studying at one of the ITC unis who kept missing selection and all of the benefits that came with it. Didn’t help that his flat mates were in the national squad and did get all the help. He gave up swimming in the end.

Even those well on the performance pathway struggle - DS’s mate was a highly successful junior international, chose uni on the basis of the high performance squad, picked up an injury and was dropped. He didn’t swim again (what a waste) yet had been a podium potential athlete for Tokyo.

Yes, lots of politics and the coaches form little cartels that you can’t break into. It’s very disheartening.

Oh in some ways it’s a relief to know we’re not the only ones. Sometimes you think you’re being paranoid. Sad to know it’s endemic though.

ds had a really successful junior career, including international GB medals. it always seemed to be the others that got the positive comments though “we know you can do it, next time” etc.

several of his peers now have offers for HPC moves post a’level. It’s depressing, especially as it all seems subjective rather than performance or results based.

he’s even thinking of declaring for his dad’s country of origin purely to get away from all this crap. He’s listened to some of the Top team GB swimmers and they live in fear of their funding being pulled. One injury or bad performance and it can all end, especially if you aren’t living at home and need the money for rent etc.

I know a couple of good swimmers (national level) that took up US scholarship places - they both seemed to get a great package in terms of funding for living costs, additional help with studies, travel, physio etc. One seemed to drop out part way through, the other one had a great college swimming career and has landed himself a dream job - neither seem to be swimming post college though.

Is your DS excited about the US college opportunity? Would coming back to the UK and doing a masters programme combined with swimming be an option? Can’t remember where I heard it, but I think places like Loughborough are developing masters programmes to attract competitive athletes.

Also worth considering studies that could lead to a career that will appeal for after swimming, as that may also influence his next steps. Useful to have a second nationality as well.

We haven't experienced it but ds hasn't been on programmes long.

He did phase 2 jan-Aug 22 and is on youth performance this year. Got nominated and awarded backing the best funding which will be a godsend.

He's attended a few British swimming camps and is off for over 2 weeks for camp and international comp in a few weeks and has been selected for worlds in summer.

But I guess we haven't seen the opposite side of it yet because he's not officially under BS programme and he has yet dropped from his ranking to see what their reaction is?

But I can't deny the pressure has concerned me but so far we see a lot in SM about how they support athletes. I'm just hoping it's true.

He did phase 2 jan-Aug 22 and is on youth performance this year. Got nominated and awarded backing the best funding which will be a godsend

we’ve had btb for the last two years. Like you say it’s a godsend. Not nominated this year though, yet others nowhere near his level have it🤷‍♀️ . Some of the others have sportsaid funding off they haven’t got btb. Several people have said to us to challenge it as it has to be a mistake.

ds is excited about the college opportunity, but really because if he stays here he’s living at home, no money, relying on us still, working a pt min wage job and training. In the US he will have uni, be living independently, have a much wider social life, and be able to train and compete. But he also wants to continue competing internationally 🤷‍♀️.

again he’s looking at the funded athletes and for most of them their lives are contained to swimming. Training, (at our pool they train full time so I think only one is at uni), they’re all going out with other swimmers, some have their own flats but again should they lose their funding it’s moving back home again.

Birmingham are supposedly getting athlete scholarships post commonwealths but I don’t think the HPC is set up there yet?

it’s just so frustrating that British swimming say you have to train in the UK, but then don’t help you to do so unless they want to

The whole funding thing sounds savage. We didn't apply for certain school scholarships here when he started improving as we could not afford the fees should he lose interest or get injured.
Don't think he'll ever be as good as your DS though but he will probably struggle to find a Uni place that will allow him to train as much as he does now due to performance squad criteria. How can anyone improve if they don't get that training time?

but he will probably struggle to find a Uni place that will allow him to train as much as he does now due to performance squad criteria. How can anyone improve if they don't get that training time?

exactly.

it’s a bit self fulfilling. British swimming justify themselves by saying it’s on “potential”, but then of course the ones they select will do better as they get all the advantages.

it’s frustrating for ds- he keeps seeing other finalists being pulled aside at competitions for reviews and chats, he never has been. He was long listed for commies- first he knew was an email to register all his stats etc. he just doesn’t know what he’s doing “wrong” of if they see some sort of failing that others don’t.

Oh and thanks for letting me vent!

Of course nobody says anything openly against BS in case it puts possible selections etc at risk 🙄

There's some tough performance squad swimmers training in US this year.

Youth!!!

Bet they’re tough too 🤣

I hear you about NGBs - I think NGBs don't put athletes at the heart of what they do. (Yet they wouldn't really have a purpose without athletes).

So much politics (irregardless of country or nation) and selection policies that are written (I'm told) by sports lawyers so they aren't open to challenge.

Mine has been offered a US scholarship and will be taking it.

Birmingham Uni does have athletic scholarships. I think Ollie Morgan is one of their athletes this year but I don't know anything about a HPC attached to it.

Goodness in a way I'm glad this isn't likely to be an issue we face with DS. Just being nosey but what is an NGB?

National governing body.

I think I've seen the flip side of the programmes. Ds is a para swimmer and has only been for 18 months and there's a big push on inclusion in the programmes now so we've only ever seen the positives.

But I'm very aware things can change and I'd be lying if I said I haven't worried that being so young he could find himself in and out of training programme opportunities in the next few years.

And I cannot afford camps etc unless we have financial help like so many.

Yep NGB‘a seem to be a bunch of old white men treating athletes like products. Medals bring in the money and keep them in jobs. They don’t care about the actual people, and seem to think athletes are disposable. One doesn’t cooperate or has an issue they just ditch them and move on.

we share a pool with divers and they were telling me British diving has funded about 5 13-15 year olds with no international background this year. put them all on “podium potential”. Purely on what someone thinks they may achieve in 4-8 years. Leaving out several senior and older juniors, including junior world and European medallists, and national finalists!!

lottery funding is a curse in many ways. It’s used as control, it means athletes often struggle to continue in education. Dd has a wake up call recently when he heard a bunch of Olympians training in a pool he was visiting saying how much they hated the annual reviews because they were always scared they’d be put on warning or have funding pulled. Sounds miserable.

he’s been offered a us uni scholarship, but been told GB don’t even look at anyone training abroad. Feels like he has to choose between education and potential GB…

I'm not sure this is 100% true. I'd speak to someone re this.

This is from British swimming. Dd was on a camp and was told point blank unless he could attend comps, camps, reviews, pre competition training etc through the year if invited they couldn’t assess performance and he wouldn’t be considered 🤷‍♀️

tbh as far as I can tell once senior unless they’re either funded, or completely outperform everyone else, they’re pretty much ignored anyway.

A number of NGBs view US scholarships as a threat to their programmes instead of working with the US universities to understand the training plan etc.

Part of the reason is that many US college programmes are very focussed their conferences and NCAAs. (& it's all racing SCY)

However there are many international swimmers that have come through the US college system.

The majority of the US Olympic team, numerous Canadians, Brazilians, Mexicans, Italians, French (Leon Marchand!) and they perform in 50m even though majority of training is in SCY.

I suspect NGBs want to prove that swimmers can come through their funded programmes and be successful without having to go abroad.

However as a parent, the US is offering my child far more than my NGB has. 4 year scholarships in the US at USD$50K - USD$80K per year.

There's a saying - go where you're wanted.

I suspect it’s about control. If they’re in funded programmes they have pretty much complete control over them. I’ve seen some pretty suspect behaviour that would be coercive control in the real world.

as you say, other countries work with the NCAA system, and produce successful national team members. It used to be that uni’s wouldn’t allow athletes to be released for international commitments, but that’s changed as having Olympians and international team members on a uni programme brings in the money. Especially now athletes are allowed to make money.

my understanding is as the NCAA season finishes in may, swimmers are then free to compete in national champs/Europeans/worlds etc may-august which is when the elite season is.

The NCAAs finish in March and British Champs (international trials) in April so very little time for NCAA swimmers to train LC in time for the trials or recover from the gruelling NCAA schedule.

US holds their trials much later.

There is no real reason why British Champs / trials should be held in April. They can hold them in May / June and still select for summer international competitions.