Constructively dismissed by Girlguiding

[iloveholidays1]

Hi all,

I have been constructively dismissed by Girlguiding for raising concerns. And no, not their trans policy ones. My daughters have also been excluded as result. They never investigated or dealt with my concerns.

I'm putting this here because:

1. I want people to know that volunteering with them is dangerous and you could find yourself in the very difficult situation I find myself in with my girls
2. If anyone else experiences this in the future, please get in touch. I spoke to a few journalists at length about this. A handful were interested in the story, but ultimately their editor said it couldn't fly without multiple people saying the same things.

I appreciate this is a very brief post and I'm happy to give more details, but I'm aware that short posts are easier to process. If I was reading this a few years ago I'd think "there's more to this than meets the eye", and there definitely is, but I'm keen to keep this short and sweet.

I had a similar experience with a UK teacher recruitment company. They got the UK DBS but I’d just been living abroad in a country with a complicated DBS system and their legal compliance team absolutely refused to follow the correct procedure to get me vetted to work with children from my time in that country and kept gaslighting me, telling me I was confused etc when the police in the other country were telling me I was right and the employer was wrong. They wanted me to start before this could be sorted, with zero verification of my time (years) in this other country.

There is literally nowhere to report breaches of criminal record check law/procedure and there should be a national point of contact to do this. It’s a huge loophole.
Based on PPs experience on this thread, THAT is the angle this story needs.

There've been threads on Mumsnet before about the Girl Guides and safeguarding issues. Like this one:

www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/4408927-safeguarding-issues-in-the-girl-guiding-movement

What are the other parents saying about this? in particular the ones whose children were bullied? Am assuming you are sending them the evidence?

Surely if an organisation gets rid of a volunteer for raising concerns then that shows they have even less due process that previously thought? So it's completely relevant to the substantive issue actually

Anyway OP your thread is bringing people together with similar concerns, so well done for posting it

OP I just want to say I believe every word you say

OP shares extremely worrying information about the Girl Guides and the pedants focus solely on whether a volunteer can be constructively dismissed or not.

Only on MN.

Not saying your concerns are not valid but I fail to see how you be constructively dismissed. As a volunteer, surely it’s just a case of them advising they don’t require your volunteering services anymore? Same as if you decided you didn’t want to volunteer anymore, then you just don’t?

I don’t comprehend why, if you believe there are gross and systemic safeguarding issues and children are at real risk, you are upset your children are no longer attending? Surely if these were/are your concerns you would have pulled them out yourself as no parent would knowingly leave children in this situation?

I think your daughters being removed because you raised issues is where you could get them.
However do you want them to go back to be part of that?

@Quveas
''You absolutelyu cannot be dismissed - constructively or otherwise - if you are a volunteer''

That's nonsense. Of course a charity can dismiss/sack/let go a volunteer.

I have worked for charities for almost 25 years and I have recruited and managed many volunteers.

Volunteers just like paid staff have to follow company policies and procedures in their role and I have had to dismiss volunteers, which means I told them they would no longer be able to volunteer for us and why, because some of them breached confidentiality procedures for example or did not perform their duties correctly. Volunteers also need to have appropriate DBS checks and references everywhere I worked, just like staff.

Back to the OP if you have safeguarding concerns that you raised (which could be staff or volunteers not having been DBS checked or staff or volunteers behaving inappropriately towards the children and their care and discriminating against children with disabilities) the charity should have immediately acted upon them and investigated your concerns. These are serious allegations that would get alarm bells ringing in any decent charity.

I would suggest contacting the organisation's Board of Trustees if you were not listened and reporting the organisation to the Charity Commission and even contacting your local authority if you believe vulnerable disabled children are being targeted.

It should not take a year or two for this to be looked into. This is a safeguarding issue that needs urgent investigation.

It could be that your local group is trying to keep things quiet but the organisation central office should be taking action.

I spoke to a few journalists at length about this.

So you're actively trying to sell your story to journalists? It makes me question your motives, to be honest.

OP I’m so sorry this has been your experience.

I would like to say though my daughter has SEND and her group are fantastic in supporting her in all the activities, including camps. As she has moved up from brownies, guides and now rangers - they have included us in decisions about where and how she does her badge work. They have provided her with many opportunities to lead activities and she is a valued members her group.

I say this to show a balance and whilst I do not dispute what you say - please don’t think your experience is a universal one.
💐💐

hi all,
Thanks for support and am very interested to hear there are others with similar issues.
Got to run just now but in answer to a few queries:

1. Yes I think I have pretty good documentary evidence of everything I've said. Of course some things are open to interpretation, and they could come back with further evidence to show I'm wrong, but in 1-2 years (exact amount of time depends on complaint), they've not done this. The information I have presented is based on the knowledge and belief.
2. Yes I'd not want my girls to go now, but initially I thought they'd just fix the issues, as I thought they were the result of individual issues rather than widespread systemic issues, but they kicked them out early on
3. I'm sorry if I'm coming across as vague but if you have specific questions, please ask
4. I've no interest in pursuing any legal claim, victimisation or other
5. I'm sorry if it comes across as me whinging rather than raising the safeguarding issues. I think a major issue is what's happened to me raising concerns / my girls - mistakes happen everywhere, and initially it was my thoughts that this is what happened and they were isolated incidents that could be rectified. But they didn't want to rectify them - they just wanted me to shut up and go away
6. Yes, I'm aware of at least one mum of disabled child who is fuming at them after her daughter was pushed out, as I understand it. But a lot of these things aren't known about - for example I know when said child was, as I understand it, pushed out of the group I used to run, she asked to go to an alternative unit - and was told no places for her for a year, but other non-disabled girls who came after her were offered places - and even when these were declined, disabled girl still wasn't offered one. I'm not going to be the one to tell her parents this - so people may not even know what is said and decided on based on a child's disability behind closed doors.

Where did you get "sell" from?

Anyway, as others have mentioned, safeguarding in GG has been the subject of legal action fairly recently (I believe they settled with the claimant) - their evidence made it pretty clear that safeguarding is an afterthought, if that.

Obviously what happens in practice varies from place to place but as an org they need to have set processes for safety, and they need to follow them. I'm not surprised by your allegations, tbh.

exactly

@Beroccadays yes I asked why my girls were removed, multiple times. @GreenFingersWouldBeHandy no I'm not trying to "sell" my story to anyone, but there's a public interest issue here, and I'd want to know if it were my girls. Nobody would "buy" a story of this kind.

I'd love to hear their version of events too! My understanding is one journalist phoned them twice for a statement and they wouldn't give one. 1-2 years I've been waiting for a substantive response on all of this.

Genuinely, if you can get them to give a response, I'd be so interested to hear it.

I absolutely believe that risk assessments etc are not done . I pulled dd from Scouts after a group of them (aged 11 I think) were left miles away with no supervision, in the middle of nowhere and told to make their own way back. Parents were waiting to collect the children and a search party had to be sent out when they didn't show up.

I find stories like this so worrying as some organisations aren’t what they’d like you to think they are ie there’s a a lot of closing ranks etc when someone flags something serious like this. Even more worrying when basic checks aren’t being made and young people are at risk.

Sorry I haven’t read the whole thread so this might already have been mentioned…. But you can report these issue to the charity commission as a whistle blower

www.gov.uk/guidance/report-serious-wrongdoing-at-a-charity-as-a-worker-or-volunteer

Wow this is quite shocking and terrifying. My children are in cubs and I'm considering pulling them out of there based on this (or perhaps volunteering for them to get an eye behind the scenes and get evidence) as it sounds they're quite similar.

This is very sad - I've been involved with Guiding as a child and an adult, most of my life really. Anywhere that I have been involved in takes safeguarding quite seriously and are progressive to becoming more accessible.

This is really concerning to read, OP. I've become more wary about GG and similar organisations in the past few years - sacking whistleblowers over safeguarding concerns is never a good sign.

For what it is worth I'd never send my children to an organised group like this. It's too cult like and a perfect structure and environment for abusers to take advantage.
This
I did allow both mine to go to Brownies / Cubs at their request despite my misgivings around safeguarding ( and this was years ago and admittedly before CRB / DBS checks). They lasted about half a term before I realised my children are too important to me to be put at risk. I would now never allow any child to attend, they are not transparent enough
DD would never, ever allow her children to attend now, looks like the organisations may believe they are above the law. Scary stuff

I'm involved in GG, my dbs runs out next April and I have already received a letter from HQ informing me this and an email from DC asking me to get in touch with the person I need to. I also have a new helper who has been with us for a few weeks but she wasn't allowed to come before she'd had her dbs check... maybe different divisions or counties aren't as hot on it as ours?

Please don't confuse Scouts with Guides, they are two completely separate organisations.