Constructively dismissed by Girlguiding

[iloveholidays1]

Hi all,

I have been constructively dismissed by Girlguiding for raising concerns. And no, not their trans policy ones. My daughters have also been excluded as result. They never investigated or dealt with my concerns.

I'm putting this here because:

1. I want people to know that volunteering with them is dangerous and you could find yourself in the very difficult situation I find myself in with my girls
2. If anyone else experiences this in the future, please get in touch. I spoke to a few journalists at length about this. A handful were interested in the story, but ultimately their editor said it couldn't fly without multiple people saying the same things.

I appreciate this is a very brief post and I'm happy to give more details, but I'm aware that short posts are easier to process. If I was reading this a few years ago I'd think "there's more to this than meets the eye", and there definitely is, but I'm keen to keep this short and sweet.

What is the main issue here? OP being forced to leave or what she has suggested she has complained about? Whilst on a personal level I can understand OPs upset, that is surely the side issue? OP hasn’t made it clear unfortunately but it sounds like she is complaining of massive safeguarding failures that have been ignored locally and by HQ. But OPs vagueness makes this difficult to determine.

@Rabidturnip LADO is about reporting people who are a risk to children, not about reporting safeguarding failures. I would have been really upset had someone reported me to LADO to highlight my lack of a DBS when I had personally done nothing wrong.

The appropriate place to report would be the Charities Commission, and the actions of Mermaids show that the CC only take action when it becomes very public.

Maybe the Disability Commission? www.drc.org.uk/

It also sounds like journalists are making a polite excuse not to get involved. If they thought there was a story they would go for it.

Absolutely not true. I have experience of people going to the media about child sexual exploitation years before it exploded all over the news. It wasn’t because there was no story. It was because they were cowards.

OP, you are right. These are serious safeguards concerns. I would look online to see who the local council safeguarding team is and start with them. They may not be able to do anything but could point you in the right direction.

Ooops, sorry OP, I didn't see this when I put up my post about whistleblower policy. So wish MN had an edit function.

I think you are confused OP. I don't see how Constructive Dismissal can apply to a volunteer.

The term is actually short for ‘constructive unfair dismissal’ and is a type of unfair dismissal.

The main difference between the two is that with constructive dismissal you feel forced to resign or leave voluntarily, whereas with unfair dismissal you are formally dismissed by your employer.
It can be very difficult to prove such cases in court because employment tribunals believe that it is only in extreme circumstances that someone feels forced to leave their employment.
The classic extreme example is not being paid your wages, or being physically assaulted.
There are many permutations of what could constitute constructive dismissal, but they all involve having your working life made so difficult by your employer – or by other colleagues – that you feel you have no option but to leave.

Hang on - if you're complaining that bitterly about these issues, why would you still want your children going there????!!!!

If there are concerns about safeguarding then you need to speak to the charities commission who will need to investigate.

If you have gone to the media and said “I was constructively dismissed by girlguiding” then they likely weren’t interested because you have made this about you and have come to them as a disgruntled ex volunteer naming your own cause first rather than going to the press and stating your concerns.

Same on here.

This actually isn’t about you, it’s about practices you’re concerned about which is an entirely different issue.

Essentially coming on here and saying that you’ve en been binned off by girlguiding and making these allegations on a public platform is potentially libellous and this thread will 100% be pulled because of it.

You need to be careful here OP. You need to do this through official and legal channels. Simply coming on to a parenting forum and making what could be considered to be libellous accusations against a large organisation could land you in a lot of trouble legally. Trust me, even if these allegations are true, without any substance you really don’t want to go there.

I don’t understand why anyone would be confused
The main issue quite clearly is the safe guarding of children, lack of safety issues and no insurance.
(Probably because no insurance company would insure them because of the lack of dbs checks and safety issues)

How can anyone not see that

Why are people arguing over the term constructive dismissal and placing that in their mind on the same level of concern as lack of dbs checks.

It can only be libellous if it is untrue

@Kennykenkencat Why are people arguing over the term constructive dismissal

because that is what OP's complaint was and we are responding to that 🙂

Why are people arguing over the term constructive dismissal and placing that in their mind on the same level of concern as lack of dbs checks. because the OP hasn’t posted that she is concerned about the organisation. She has posted that she was constructively dismissed, which actually isn’t a thing in terms of volunteering, but either way, she has made this about her which, if the allegations of safeguarding practices are true, isn’t going to do her any favours.

There is possibly another reason why the OP’s position has been terminated. We have absolutely no idea when someone with only a username comes on here and makes these allegations at a time when the thread is least likely to be pulled quickly.

Nobody cares whether a volunteer is let go. Volunteers come and go all the time. That doesn’t mean that the way volunteers are treated shouldn’t be questioned, but if safeguarding is the genuine concern then safeguarding is the thing which needs to be brought up. Making this all about the OP and how she was treated, and how sad she is about her daughters not being allowed to go to an organisation whose safeguarding practices she claims are irresponsible isn’t giving her story here much credibility.

@Kennykenkencat It can only be libellous if it is untrue

And the onus is on the person making the statement to prove that it is true.

@MayThe4th makes some good points - it's a legal minefield you don't want to get into. This isn't case of 'chinese whispers' at school. This is tangling with huge well-respected organisation with plenty of legal muscle.

OP should drop it IMO.

It’s not up to mn to confirm that.

If someone posts making public allegations against an organisation who have the power (and the money) to take legal action against them they will 100% pull the thread. If the allegations are proven to be true then of course they can be stated, but this is a personal gripe made against an organisation with claims of their practices thrown in as a secondary part of the allegation. It can easily be construed that the OP is making these allegations in order to garner attention for herself.

If the OP wants things done she needs to pursue more legal avenues.

@MayThe4th Guides would have to demonstrate both that the claims were false and that they were not honest opinion. It's also publication of a matter for public interest. No reason for the thread to be pulled unless guides demonstrated the comments were false.

Surely we should all be more concerned about the safety and possible ( alleged) breaches of safety than argue about the terms IT, ET and constructive dismissal. The OP is no longer a volunteer but it appears her concerns over safety were not investigated.
OP do you have proof relating to your allegations? In your shoes I’d be gathering that together and asking if other volunteers or employees have observed similar via SM.

Report to LADO. They investigate organisational issues too not just individuals. Good luck OP

Actually I think people should be concerned about an organisation that stops children from attending because of a parent. It's not the first time guides have done this to a volunteers children. That volunteer did take legal action, it was settled without a hearing.

OP is asking if there are other examples - I'm one, although only for a DBS check. My unit was not a safety concern (the families of the children knew me well enough not to be worried and risk assessments were done properly) but something further up the chain didnt work properly. And guides would be totally unable to show they carried out a DBS check on me so dont try to tell me that's libellous!

OPs story is very easy to follow. Can’t understand the people saying she is being vague/confusing. The lack of reading comprehension on Mumsnet is staggering sometimes, along with people determined to latch on to minor details instead of the main point of the post.

OP, it’s shocking that Girl guides are letting people volunteer without DBS checks, and that HQ dismissed you instead of investigating properly. I hope you find other women with the same experience so that a journalist can proceed with the story. Good luck.

I’m sorry they treated you like this.

I lost all respect for GG when my daughter was basically forced out because her autism was making it difficult to join in with everything. I still have that email.

Many years ago I volunteered with Rainbows and had the most awful experience. It’s probably not recent enough to add to a current case of how volunteers are treated but more than welcome to share what happened OP.

As someone who attended Brownies and Guides when I was younger I really wanted to give something back as I enjoyed those years so much. Sadly I only lasted a couple of terms

I know for a fact that GG have been working on their disability approach through improving training etc. I'm involved in GG and speak to HQ regularly.

However, if you feel your daughters have been treated unfairly due to you raising concerns of other girls being disability discriminated against then you could have a victimisation claim.

It’s not an organisation you get on with and one that’s clearly not interested in you volunteering with them so I’d let it go unless you have evidence. Without any evidence this is all hearsay and you can end up in court for libel.

It's a vile organisation and you're better off out of it OP.

OP I'm sorry to hear about your experiences, and how it's also affected your own children.
It's not libellous to share your own truthful account of what's happened to you, and it's interesting to note that a fair few other posters have popped up with similar stories (of DBS/CRB checks not being carried out, volunteers' children being dropped, girls with additional needs being dropped, HQ ignoring concerns or not following their own policies etc). It makes me hope that a mainstream media outlet does pick up on it, and have the guts to run a story.
It's really sad to hear that such a well-respected, national, organisation, that's provided so many opportunities for girls for years, isn't functioning as well as it could be.
I imagine you're feeling a lot of grief right now, and would urge you to take care of yourself.

Actually depending on how long ago this was you weren't send a copy of the result as an individual for a DBS carried out by an organisation in the days when CRB were around rather than DBS>