4/4 Violin hunting

[Kutik73]

We've started hunting for a 4/4 violin for DS. We have visited two luthiers so far and each let us take one home. We can keep one for a week and another for two weeks.

DS likes one in particular and it costs £5500 for the violin alone. I know the price is not always mirrored to the quality of the sounds. It only makes difficult to judge as I don't play any instrument. So I did a bit of research and accidentally found the same violin being sold back in October for £1200-1800. It's auctioned so the exact selling price was not displayed. Looking at the photo, it has the same marks and scars so it's definitely the same violin we have here.

I can see the bridge, chin rest, and tuners has been replaced. But the selling notes stated the condition as excellent so I assume major work wasn't required by the luthier. But I don't know.

Surely luthiers have to make money so I understand it's common practice for them to buy something cheaper and add some work and sell at a higher price. But more than doubling the bought price sound quite a lot, especially it seemed to be in great conditions already.

Should I be careful or can I trust the luthier? I hope he is not pricing unnecessarily high... Any input/advice/sharing experiences would be greatly appreciated!

Sounds promising kutik

Thanks, ealing. I am slightly nervous to hear what the teacher would say tomorrow!

I'm just popping up to say how much I am enjoying following this thread. I know nothing about violins (I passed Grade 2 on a borrowed instrument and retired gracefully) but this has been a really lovely meander through luthiers, trials and some very talented and determined musicians.

Kutik I have nothing to contribute but I do hope that your DS finds a violin that he loves - he sounds wonderful.

Romaine, thank you so much for such a kind note. Every post is greatly appreciated as a contribution. It keeps me going and gives me energy! I don't play any instrument so you have my absolute admiration for passing grade 2 violin!

Ok, I'm going to have to reread this thread from the beginning and take notes. DD's teacher said she needs a full size today as she has grown. Ideally in the next two months, before g6 exam in July.

We are not looking for a forever violin, just something good to last just post g8. DD is 10 and a half, and currently, I think, quite easily pleased. I'm hoping £1,200 to £1,500.

Welcome Niggle! Please do re-read and take notes! There are plenty wisdom and knowledge, especially for your price ranges. Try not to go beyond your budget if you can. The last violin we collected was £7k. It's so easy to creep up without noticing as things develop so gradually. Luckily DS and I both realised we were being out of reality so put the violin back in the case ready to return asap!!

The teacher tested the Old French and her favourite £4k non-label German. She still liked the £4k, but agreed with DS it may not be good enough. She could see DS had to work harder to produce the sound he wanted on the violin. She was OK with the Old French. She seemed to like A and E which she complained before so a luthier adjusted a bit, but this time she was not fully happy with G and D!!! She said it created more colours when DS played a slower piece (compared with the £4k), but G and D being so dominant and loud, it didn't sound great when DS played an energetic piece with lots of dramatic chords. DS would have to learn to play less energetic on G and D but it would not be great for the learning point of views, she said.

We are returning the £4k and the 7k tomorrow. Not sure how long we can keep the Old French. Ideally we like to keep it until we receive the two violins which are supposed to be delivered sometime this week.

Tired.

Kutik, I am very much hoping not to be seduced by a violin, say, £500 more, etc, as then the door is open to just a little more, and.. well, I think you know!

I am looking forward to when you can say you have the one. The one for now, not necessarily forever!

We returned the £4k and the £7k today. Returning violins has some sort of detox type of feeling! Not sure if anyone can understand what I mean!!

Tomorrow we are returning a £3k German which DS's teacher totally disliked! It was our attempt to find a reasonable, healthy violin but obviously we completely failed the task!

Niggle, it's so nice to have a hunting buddy. Please do update on your search when you can!

The old French one sounds very promising, how much was is again? Not at all swayed by the fact that my most recent violin is old & French but the bridge adjustments sound like a very promising thing, especially finding a luthier that can do them well! Who is the luthier? I've lost track

I will PM you shortly, stringmealong.

Could anyone kindly share the information of instrument insurance companies?

We use Newmoon for DS' 3/4 violin, simply because it was what the luthier recommended at the time. The renewal of the contact is due on 23rd April. However, we are going to do part exchange for 4/4 so we don't need to renew the contact for 3/4 but need a new one for 4/4 (haven't bought yet but we are nearly there).

Now, 4/4 will be a lot more expensive. I am slightly under the pressure to make sure we cover everything needed! Hence, thinking of shopping around this time.

Any recommendation/advice would be greatly appreciated!

We use Allianz musical insurance.

We use Lark for multiple very valuable instruments. They are very good value for us, and treated us very well when we needed them. I am not sure if they are equally good for someone in your situation. Definitely worth talking to them and getting an estimate-

Thank you NeverEver and claraschu. I'll look at their website and check the details.

I have a question about bow...

We have two functioning bows at the moment. One is DS's crappy 3/4 and another is a decent 4/4 bow borrowed from jd. DS is not particularly keen on the 4/4 bow and also it looks still a bit too long for him so he's been still using his crappy one and we are going to return the bow to jd. I know people sometimes stay with their older, shorter bow and move on to the next size after they get used to the new violin (and this way they prob have better ideas what kind of bow they would like for the violin).

Now my dilemma is when to start looking for a 4/4 bow. How long should DS stick to his crappy one?? We are away for May half term as well as summer so if we don't start looking for a bow now, it'll be autumn half term or Christmas or even later...

I will ask the teacher of course, but we won't see her until the end of this month. Wondering if we should look around and possibly get a few for approval before the first lesson of this term. Because once the lesson starts DS won't have time to visit shops for bow...

Are you buying the French violin?

I would think that waiting till October for a bow might be frustrating, if the 3/4 bow is not good.

Caswell Strings in the king of bows & will send collections by post for you to try at leisure. By far the easiest way & you can just keep trying until you find ones you like to compare. I honestly don't know any shop with a bigger stock

claraschu, no, afraid it's going to be returned. We received two violins, one of which was the one DS always liked. We tested three of them in different rooms/places, and the one DS always liked was a winner.

A problem is we don't know what the teacher says and we won't see her until the end of this month...

stringme, thank you for the info about Caswell Strings. The posting and trying system will def take pressure off of when to start looking around as we don't need to wait for a school holiday. Though DS is keen to go back to Cardiff!

Oh that's exciting that you are getting close. It sounds very hopeful that he still loves that instrument after all the looking around you have done.

Have read this thread with interest- thank you.

Can I ask some advice (I know nothing about violins) - dd is 12 and has a 4/4 violin bought from our local music shop for just over £100. Her teacher has suggested that we get her a better violin (she is only grade 4 so nothing like the dc on this thread - I’m in awe of these dc talents) - what sort of ball park figure am I looking at for a better violin? I can’t afford (or justify) £1000’s but would like something better for her?

Kitty - in my opinion, anything between 100 & 400 is a waste of money as they generally only improve quality of fittings & fixings no difference in the quality of the wood used or anything like that. A £500 outfit (with case & bow) is the next worthwhile upgrade - otherwise just spend £100 on a better bow, £50 on better strings, maybe upgrade to a better bridge?

Thank you stringmealong really useful to know. Dd’s Violin teacher will help us with choosing a violin but I’d like to get a feel for what to be looking at. £500-£750 is probably the range I would be thinking of - do you think it’s worthwhile upgrading at only grade 4 (dd enjoys the violin and I would anticipate her continuing playing throughout school but it’s obviously never going to be a career and competes for her time along with drama, her sport she plays competitively and her school work).

Would changing bow and strings make a significant difference? (Sorry I know nothing!!)

We insure all the family's (8 at the last count) instruments with Allianz and it's very simple to do online and you can specify the level of cover you need. We got DDs 4/4 cello a few months back at Caswells near Banbury, then chose a bow there to go with it. It's astonishing how different the same instrument sounds with the different bows. In terms of bow size for a violinist, his arm should be pretty much straight when the bow is pulled right to the tip.

Kitty, hope you will find a suitable violin for your DD. Quite many violin specialist shops stock wide range of nice student violin under £1000. I do believe it's worthwhile upgrading if you can afford. DS's friend managed to reach G8 standard (no exam taken) on a £100-200 violin but it was 1/2 not a full size and the teacher hated the violin with passion! He now has a nice order-made 3/4 violin which cost only £1000 (bargain for a handmade).

oenophilia, Allianz seems very popular on MN! I will definitely check it out! Thank you also for your advice on the bow. It seems 3/4 is just right now. A full sized bow seems a bit too long.

Kitty -
£400-700 outfit & you should see a significant improvement. At grade 4 Vibrato will be becoming a requirement & it doesn't matter how hard you try, you just can't vibrate properly on a £100 instrument especially if it's from a music shop not a luthier (it won't have had any bridge adjustments etc). Just make sure the bow is of at least £100 quality it makes all the difference

Which gives me a bit of headache actually. Because, I don't see any point of buying another 3/4, so DS has to stick to his crappy bow rather than getting a lovely full sized bow! Not sure what I should do when re hair is needed...