4/4 Violin hunting

[Kutik73]

We've started hunting for a 4/4 violin for DS. We have visited two luthiers so far and each let us take one home. We can keep one for a week and another for two weeks.

DS likes one in particular and it costs £5500 for the violin alone. I know the price is not always mirrored to the quality of the sounds. It only makes difficult to judge as I don't play any instrument. So I did a bit of research and accidentally found the same violin being sold back in October for £1200-1800. It's auctioned so the exact selling price was not displayed. Looking at the photo, it has the same marks and scars so it's definitely the same violin we have here.

I can see the bridge, chin rest, and tuners has been replaced. But the selling notes stated the condition as excellent so I assume major work wasn't required by the luthier. But I don't know.

Surely luthiers have to make money so I understand it's common practice for them to buy something cheaper and add some work and sell at a higher price. But more than doubling the bought price sound quite a lot, especially it seemed to be in great conditions already.

Should I be careful or can I trust the luthier? I hope he is not pricing unnecessarily high... Any input/advice/sharing experiences would be greatly appreciated!

Kutik - we used Woodbridge violins for both 3/4 and 4/4. Russell is fab. The best part is whatever your budget is, he will leave a selection both well below and up to your budget. Never above and all are testedblind by the player - I.e no problems cars on the map to influence. It is a bit like olivander's wand shop in there! Re: bows we had a selection from £100- £2k and miniprada chose one of the cheapest on the basis she genuinely could not see the day deference. We also p/ex'd the 3/4 for 100% of what we paid for it as it was also from Woodbridge. My biggest fear is leaving it on the tube though, so whilst they are young, maybe borrowing an insured one is not a terrible idea....

People keep telling me about Woodbridge and Stringer yet I haven't visited those big two after all the painful research! I don't know why... I have a few appointments this week. If none of them didn't work out then those two are def where I would go next!!

DS will take tube to school too from September...

Prada and Kutik we got ds's violin from Woodbridge and I agree that Russell is fabulous and it is like Olivander's wand shop! We will be going there for ds's full size though I'm very unsure about spending upwards of £5K which his violin teacher suggested when he's only 12. I'm not sure he's ready for his "forever" violin yet. He wants to go all the way to Music college and I'm sure that will happen but he's 12. Anything could happen in 4 years. What are people's views?

Disorganised- I'd get a dejection to try. Miniprada did not select the most expensive violin, but the one she most liked the tone of. As she was only 11 and physically very tiny, i don't consider this her 'forever' violin either. I think there will be another term come. She is going to start thinking about JD auditions soon so we'll see what happens if she makes it into one....

disorganised, if your DS is serious enough to think of going to music college, I don't think anything you buy now will be his forever violin. He may need to upgrade before college and again when he is leaving college, then again and possibly again (and again). If you choose by the tone, you can probably select from £1k to £5k rather than just around £5k.

A dealer I spoke to today said to me what important is to make sure we can get the money back (ideally 100%) so that we can keep upgrading without losing money. I understand what he is saying, but doesn't it tie you up with a dealer/luthier who we bought a violin from and promises 100% money back for trade-in? Sure we can try to sell it independently, but we may get only 60% (or 50%, 30% and so on) back...

• selection not dejection 😂

Kutik - I like the idea of 100 p/ex. Yes it does tie you in, but as an ex car dealer I can tell you that it is appealing! Plus something is worth what it is worth regardless of the dealer/luthier so tying in with one shouldn't really be an issue?

Prada, I agree, 100 p/ex def gives me the sense of easiness... But in that case, isn't it better to go to a luthier/dealer who can offer wider selections rather than those who run a small workshop and have a few at a time? I like this particular luthier who runs a tiny workshop outside of London and he happens to have some lovely instruments time to time (we bought two from him before). I am visiting a large shop tomorrow. I know they have lots stock and they do 100 p/ex. Part of me is excited about the visit and is hoping to find something, but part of me is wanting to find something from the one I mentioned above. However, I know he may not have many to offer when it comes to exchange/upgrade in future...

I bought a new rosin yesterday, just out of curiosity. Wow, what's the difference! The English made violin suddenly opened up and made some juicy sound. DS and I both thought to return this violin but we may test it out more!

Today we are visiting Bridgewood & Neitzert. Each place has different aroma and charm. I can't wait to find out about them.

I am also meeting Martin Swan this weekend. I'll report you back my thoughts, Maursh!

Kutik, very interested in your visit to B&N, as it's my local shop/repair place. I feel you're blazing a trail here to inform the rest of us. So thank you!

Btw, what was the roisin?

cingo, the rosin is William Salchow (N.Y.). I bought this from Matthew Coltman in Earling. If you live in the area, you may be interested in Alex Hillairet also? I thought of combining two visits (B&N and Alex) but DS has orchestra this evening so we prob struggle time-wise. This also bring me back to the debate of small workshop vs large workshop for the benefit of future upgrade.

Kutik, I didn't know about Alex Hillairet so thanks for that - another name for my "violin contacts".

cingo, let me know about Alex Hillairet if you happen to visit him before me!

Kutik - I've ordered the rosin to arrive today. Available on stringzone for anyone who wants to order. Miniprada has a school concert later so we'll see if the sound is improved....

Ooooh, I hope Miniprada likes the rosin. DS seems to be happy with it. Good luck for her concert!

disorganised, I just watched Minidisorganised videos. Wow, is the violin from Woodbridge? May I ask you how much it was? Lovely tone! Or is it because of Minidisorganised playing it?

Lol Kutik is like to say that it's mini disorganised's playing but I have no idea! Yes it's from Woodbridge Violins and it's an antique French violin from around 1860 I believe. We paid £1500 for it and they will part exchange it for a full size which is great. He loves it and wants another antique for his full size. We don't think we will get mini dis his "forever" Violin this time round but an inbetween one. However if he finds "the one" we may think again. Watch this space!!

I'm a cellist's mother. My story. My son is a music scholar at a famous school. I said I would buy him his 'forever' cello when he got a full size. Before that, he was lucky enough to be part of the Benslow Music loan scheme and had
always decent instruments. His 3/4 - was beautiful. English cello maker. His teacher loved it too. When the time came to search for a full size, his teacher wished me luck.., I contacted cello maker of 3/4. She had just finished a full size and brought it to London for my son to try. He really liked it. His teacher tried it also and approved. I bought it. Every cellist who plays on it says it is beautiful to play on.
I feel so lucky. OP i cannot believe the lengths you are going to. My child would have got very bored of this. (Btw. I am a musician also).

The bow is very important. We have bought all our bows from Guivier. They are excellent. My son has a beautiful Hill bow and a decent second bow from Benslow as a spare. Guivier sell good student cello bows for about £400 and part exchange after. Take a look.

If I were you, I would stop the search and buy one of the ones he likes. As you say, it's not his 'forever' violin.

Good luck

LesLavandes, thank you for sharing your story and great advice - I will visit Guiver for bow!

To be honest I was happy with a violin and DS liked it to begin with but then later said 'still not quite right'. We kept it for a long time but finally returned a couple of days ago as DS didn't change his view (I'm still thinking of the violin).

DS liked another violin but I decided to return for a check-up as advised by three different luthiers. We may purchase this violin of DS's favourite if all the concerns are cleared. We are still waiting for the answer. This was the only one I decided to return but others were all DS's decision.

Initially we were going to buy during the half term holiday in February but couldn't. Now DS's back to school, movements slow down, though it may sound like we are doing a lot. I think we'll purchase during Easter (hopefully), or just borrow one from jd for the time being.

I am tired but DS is not... He is getting the joy of visiting different workshops/shops. He seems to be very interested in the making side rather than the playing side actually! So no, he hasn't been bored..., yet...

disorganised, thanks for the info. I believe it's a combination of your mini and the beautiful violin that produces the lovely sound!

Haven't seen the video yet disorganised, but I do think Woodbridge violins have a great range of violins with a beautiful tone. Miniprada's is very loud Russell also advised that between £2-£5kish there is not a great deal of difference in what you can purchase. We had at least 12 to try last time. You might save a couple of quid Kutik

What a quest. I’m impressed and inspired and a little overawed. So much hunting.

Primo is playing my sister’s 3/4 cello right now. We had it set up new for him, and they sawed off a part of the fingerboard at the same time. Reading this I’m wondering if we should be looking at upgrading his bow because maybe we’ve reached the stage where sound quality could be improved. Last year I tried to avoid taking it to school and having him play the school 3/4 - he refused, insisted that the quality was shit and it was unplayable. We transported it weekly.

I’ve kept his 1/2 size, it didn’t sell when I first listed it and after discussions we decided that having it there to use as part trade on the 4/4 would help with sticker shock. I think my sister will take the 3/4 back even though she plays a 7/8 herself.

Primo currently has a borrowed from the school 4/4 violin. It’s pretty awful, so if he keeps playing, even as a secondary instrument, we might need to look into finding something better.

Flute was easier. The flute secundus started on belonged to a different sister. This time last year we were told it would cost more to service than it was worth. He had just grown enough to do without the bendy head joint so we just had to choose between 3 models. The one he ended up with - we are told (teacher as well as shop) - will take him up to grade 6/7 comfortably and if he decides to stay comfortably amateur it might even be ok for a ‘forever’ flute. Maybe.

Looking forward to hearing future chapters of your tale. The right violin. And bow. And case. Are violin cases cheaper than cello ones? They must be because of the size.

Have loved reading this as it has taken me back a few months!
DD(13) and I spent around 6months and umpteen hours travelling/playing/
borrowing/returning instruments! We gave up for a while! She was so in love with her 3/4 that she was looking for perfection! We went with tone and sound-but...she also was after a certain look (not the most important part, but you've got to love it so it had to tick the boxes!) she wanted an antique violin (as her 3/4 was) & also didn't want an orange one!!!

Fortunately, one day, one of the many luthiers we had visited phoned me and said "I think I've got it!". Someone who played for the ESO had fancied a change for his 2nd violin and had traded it in! I went over-TBH it is the most beautiful violin to look at- of course, it was the one! It's a 1735 Klotz. She absolutely loves it. It was at the upperend, almost more than we wanted to spend at £5k.

I took it to another luthier who did valuations to see what they thought-muchos excitement involving them cataloging it and taking photos! They were shocked at me being offered it for £5k as they valued it at £7.5k! This did help the decision somewhat and took the sting out! The bow was relatively cheap as we couldn't find the perfect one so it was only £500 but will do as an interim/spare and now we are on the bow hunt!
Two months after she needed a new flute😱😱😱

I very much second taking your time-there is no rush. At 10, I would probably have gone down the cheaper route as an interim and got a good quality Chinese model. DD is nearly 14 now so I could get my head round it more and she is more reliable in looking after things (not like DS (11) who has just phoned me to see if I have his watch!)

Prada, Wooodbridge is def on my list.

Emerence, I assume cello cases are more expensive, yes. Luckily DS's case is sorted (bought in Cardiff). Now we just need 'something' to fill the gap inside!

MsJolly, glad to hear someone spent for 6 months on hunting! My one month sounds nothing! But what's a lovely ending. I mean, almost like everybody's dream sort of ending!! DS's 2nd instrument is piano, and he's got Yamaha U3 and Clavinova. So at least his 2nd instrument is totally sorted, phew!

Getting B&N was a total nightmare. Sat Nav stopped working and all that. But the painful journey paid off. We had a great time there.

DS tried 10 - 15 violins, then selected the top three out of them but wasn't really convinced. A gentleman came in the room and chatted a bit with DS, then brought a few more but DS wasn't still convinced... Finally a lady brought a violin. And that was it. DS liked it. We decided to take it out for approval.

I told them my budget was £1k to £3k on the phone. But the one DS liked was over £6k... It's partly DS's fault as he kept saying 'not quite right', so they probably ended up upping the price. Luckily they liked DS's 3/4 violin so we were offered a generous p/ex deal so it'll be not too bad. Yet it's far from the good Chinese violin price I was originally hoping to settle down. But at least we didn't come home with empty hands!

I collected two more violins from another luthier while DS was at school today. DS tried them later in the evening and quickly told me he preferred the one from B&N. So those two are swiftly going back to the luthier.

We are still waiting to hear from Cardiff about the violin of DS's favourite. I am also going to see Martin Swan this Sunday.