Brexit

[PerkyLady]

Hello.
Maybe some of you will consider this a fresh topic, but I'm interested in it nevertheless.
Did you vote for or against Brexit?
And what were your reasons?
Stay well.

@RedTagAlan

The NHS received additional funding before the UK left the EU in 2020. So, its neither a universal benefit or disadvantage of Brexit.

That the funding came from cuts to other areas is an example of spending the same money twice is not possible. To raise more money, you either increase borrowing or increase taxes. Neither of which helps in the long term. So, the only remaining option is to reallocate from existing funds.

The findings of BreifingsforBritain were based in measured historical data as opposed to forecasts. The chart produced indicates that UK is continuing on the same trajectory that commenced in 2008 subsequent to the financial crisis.

The 4% productivity drop, which remain state is solely due to Brexit, is a continuation of what has happened since 2008.

Regards service exports, look at:

UK exports of services to both EU and non-EU countries fell in 2020 but have grown strongly since then. In 2024, UK exports of services to the EU were 19% above their 2019 level in real terms. Exports to non-EU countries were 23% above their 2019 level.

Source;

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-7851/#:~:text=Services%20have%20performed%20better,%2DEU%20countries%2C%20especially%20fuel.

Yeah. You are just arguing for the sake of it now. You have left the concept of good faith debate behind.

@RedTagAlan

You have left the concept of good faith debate behind

Presenting publicly available data is neither an argument nor bad faith.

It's the old Russian tactic of obfuscation. As used during the Brexit debate, and even more during recent elections.

Ahh yes. You like public data when it suits you, you dismiss it when you don't.

And oddly enough, one of the sites you linked does the same, as I pointed out.

Yup. Flat earthers and other conspiracy folk use all the same tactics. I am not saying pro-Brexit fans are conspiracists, just that they debate the same :-)

But, I find it fun debating flerths. Because they are harmless. They don't usually make Government policy. It aslo sharpens up science skills, logic, debate methods etc.

It aslo sharpens up science skills, logic, debate methods etc.

But not grammar and spelling skills.

If you would like to see some real live obfuscation, watch last nights episode of BBC Question Time from Dover. It was meant to be a discussion on immigration only, but often diverted to the agendas of the Green and Liberal parties.

Daisy Cooper, Liberal Democrat, stated that boat crossings have increased due to UK no longer being part of the Dublin Agreement. Both the conservative representative and the presenter, Fiona Bruce, had to remind her that UK took in more people than they returned under the Dublin Agreement and the numbers were tiny.

Zack Polanski, Green Party and hypnotist for making women’s breasts larger, advocated no borders at all and more community centres so that everyone can pray together.

Ah, more obfuscation. Pretty much none of that is true...

And we get to the ad hominems and the gish gallop introduction of unrelated matter to the discussion.

Anything to avoid what should be the easiest question to answer. Name one universal benefit of Brexit. We never even got to the point of discussing how to define universal.

You went from not naming a Brexit benefit to what some guy said about making women's breasts larger.

Cool.

Aye MaybeNotBob

Flat earthers do the same. Change the subject, misdirect, throw in loads of unrelated stuff, try to raise the temperature with insults. And they do this in the hope their debate opponent gives up and walks away.

Then they do a victory roll, " that showed them".

Many flat earthers, by the way, are really clever people. Smarter than me for sure. They talk of relativity, flaws in physics etc, but that have one major Achilles heel. They can't explain how the sun appears in the sky according to their flat earth.

And it seems we know the Brexiters Achilles heel: they can't name a single universal benefit.

:-)

Do Flat Earthers get all offended and snowflakey when challenged with reality @RedTagAlan?

@MaybeNotBob

Watch the show and listen to what was said. You will be able to see it on; BBC iPlayer, catch up TV if you have sky or on YouTube.

@RedTagAlan

No policy will ever have a universal benefit. There will always be winners and losers regardless of what decisions are made by government or by parliamentary vote.

The HOC vote held on 29 March 2017 produced 498 in favour of leave and 114 to remain. Had there been an identifiable universal benefit, then logically 100% of MPs would have voted leave. Likewise, had there been identifiable universal disadvantages, then logically 100% of MPs would have voted to remain.

they try to raise the temperature with insults. And they do this in the hope their debate opponent gives up and walks away.

This seems to be a favourite of Maybe and many other remain supporters with regular use of words like; thick, stupid, ignorant,… who often have their posts deleted by MN.

I saw it, you're talking rubbish as I've already stated...

@MaybeNotBob

Maybe watch again, but with the volume on or higher. Zack Polanski was introduced by Fiona Bruce as the man who wants no borders. She even quoted from the Green manifesto.

Daisy Cooper stated that Brexit is cause of small boat crossings 28 minutes into the program. The conservative representative replied that if boat crossings are due to Brexit, why are people arriving in Spain and Italy by boat? A question which (Oopsa) Daisy didn’t answer.

The BBC has again been accused of bias. The Iranian member of audience, who had previously arrived by boat, was invited by the BBC to give his view. When the subject of the ECHR came up, he can be seen reading from a mobile and had an ear piece in his left ear. Was he being prompted?

The other boat arrival, from Afghanistan, advised his asylum application had been rejected by six countries before he came to the UK. Of the six, three were Austria, Germany and Romania (EU members).

You're still talking nonsense. People can go and listen for themselves.

And as for your conspiracy theories...

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

The Global Hungarian resident AI squirrel is quite fat enough.
Please do not feed it.

It's entire point is to obfuscate and make noise so that people think there is actually a debate on the subject. Unfortunately, non-Russians with brains have to keep calling it out for what it is otherwise the gullible might believe they have a genuine point. When everyone with a functioning cortex knows it's bullshit.

Some do for sure. Though TBH it's usually the debunkers who lose their cool, from sheer frustration.

It's mostly good natured. Some flerths do end up throwing pedo accusations around, and then it gets nasty.

If you come across a flerth, a good trigger test is to say , "Thanks Bob, 15 degrees per hour". If they are an enthusiast they will know what that means, and it might get a reaction. At the same time, it indicates to them that you know about it.

Bob Knodel, the reason for that statement, was a famous semi pro flat earther. A genuinely nice guy, there was sadness both sides when he suddenly died. So now an RIP is added.

Thanks Bob, 15 degrees per hour, RIP.

Flat Earther splashes out $20K on experiment - only to end up proving Earth is ROUND - The Mirror

@MaybeNotBob

Unfortunately, non-Russians with brains have to keep calling it out for what it is otherwise the gullible might believe they have a genuine point.

and at the same time.

“The point of modern propaganda isn't only to misinform or push an agenda. It is to exhaust your critical thinking, to annihilate truth.” - Garry Kasparov

Not very consistent considering Gary Kasparov is Russian nationality.

Except that you've just proved his point...

@MaybeNotBob

So, the Russians are correct?

I read propaganda every day, MaybeNotBob, and myself and a couple of mates discuss it . We all have a casual interest in the same area of geo-politics.

The propaganda nation sets its story, repeats it again and again, does not deviate, and will not be drawn into any discussion on the truthfulness of their set story. Even though they know details of their set piece are easily debunked.

One of the group posted a quote from Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn today.

They lie to us, we know they’re lying, they know we know they’re lying but they keep lying anyway, and we keep pretending to believe them.

A fact checker site says it probably was not Solzhenitsyn who said it first, but hey ho . I did check, just cos I like to check -) It was more likely Elena Gorokhova who said it first. I have no idea, but my due diligence is done. Happy to be corrected.

The quote can be applied pretty well to many Brexiters too I reckon. They state a lie, repeat, double down, refuse to be drawn into a debate on it

And no, I am not accusing @GlobeTrotter2000 of lying. Constant repeating of the same set piece yes.

Constant repeating of the same set piece yes.

Since 23 June 2016, the same set pieces have been posted on MN by remain supporters such as;

The referendum was not binding
People were lied to
Those who voted leave are;

Racist
Thick
Stupid
Ignorant

Evidence to prove such assumptions are never seen. Likewise, many a poster has had their posts deleted by MN.

And now we are not talking about what the Brexit benefits are.

Will these benefits be along any moment now ?

Or are they like the number 17 bus. Wait ages, and you might get 3 at once, or you might eventually find they were cancelled and the bus company never told anyone. It's starting to look like the latter.

Taxi !

Meanwhile the bus company boss is on the telly telling everyone how bad the bus service is in Anchorage,