Brexit

[PerkyLady]

Hello.
Maybe some of you will consider this a fresh topic, but I'm interested in it nevertheless.
Did you vote for or against Brexit?
And what were your reasons?
Stay well.

Will these benefits be along any moment now ?

They have already been listed on MN many times. Maybe read them.

Alternatively, make contact with the 498 MPs who voted to leave in 2017. Their names are publicly available.

Well we have the worst deal in Europe on trade, do we not? Norway, Switzerland everyone else has a better “deal”?
We never really were in fully because we did not join the Euro. We had our own version of being “in”. We already had a bespoke deal at the time.
It is inevitable that are trade relations with our closest neighbours will be up for discussion and negotiation every few years so this question is never going to go away. Even if some people want to bury it. That was known to most sensible people at the time of the referendum.

We can see the huge issues leaving has caused and there will be issues for generations, the environmental losses angers me the most.

Men in flags wanging on about immigration don't understand how Brexit and our decisions to cut aid abroad increase this and decrease our financial capacity to deal with it.

They don't think too deeply on how our water and rivers and beaches are now being completely polluted to shit because no regulatory body is overlooking them, which the EU did.

We warned them, they still won't listen. We get "new problems" because the EU used to cover them with so called "red tape" Farage and the flag-shaggers want to remove, because it makes their lives profitable at the expense of the rest of us.

The majority of the electorate here currently appears to not want to be in Schengen hence all the anti immigration talk, constantly. However, this again will change, as the oldies die off and the younger generation make themselves heard more politically. It is all inevitable. So frankly, I am 100% positive that we will in the not too distant future be closer to the EU again, in whatever shape or form.

@Araminta1003

Why do people forget that the UKs decision to leave the EU was made by MPs on 29 March 2017, not by the result of the 2016 referendum.

Ireland is not in Schengen.

@IBorAlevels

Men in flags wanging on about immigration don't understand how Brexit and our decisions to cut aid abroad increase this and decrease our financial capacity to deal with it

There’s no conclusive proof that Brexit is a causal factor in immigration. UK ranks fifth behind; Germany, France, Spain and Italy.

As more migrants enter the EU either across the Mediterranean or via Eastern Europe, the more likely they are to end up in Calais.

Voted against but simply because nobody could give me a good enough reason to change the status quo.

From what I can see it’s been a disaster for us financially. No regrets about voting the way I did. Have plenty of friends who voted Leave though,

If you cut aid to countries the victims of war and other atrocities will leave. Where do you think most of the immigrants are from? Leavers love to ignore the rest of the world as if we live in complete isolation.

@IBorAlevels

Where do you think most of the immigrants are from?

Many come from: Afghanistan, Syria, Iran, Eritrean. They either cross the Mediterranean or enter via Eastern Europe and have being doing so since the 1970s. Fifty years before Brexit.

“Why do people forget that the UKs decision to leave the EU was made by MPs on 29 March 2017, not by the result of the 2016 referendum.”

@GlobeTrotter2000 - mere technical “try it on” argument on your behalf.

Invert the question. Had the referendum outcome been No to Brexit, the MPs as a whole would never have “voted” that way. They felt it their political mandate aka will of the people to do so. Just because on a political technicality Parliament has the last say, the substance was the vote by the populace. You can keep trying it on, but we all know the truth,

Globe lives in Hungary and has done since the 90's

Globe like to fill threads with repetitive drivel to stop other people having sensible discussions.

@GlobeTrotter2000 - what is your take on Orban, are you free to say on social media? Much more interesting question than Brexit!

I am fascinated by Hungary given all the different identities. How do you feel about Russia @GlobeTrotter2000 ?

@Araminta1003

Had the referendum outcome been No to Brexit, the MPs as a whole would never have “voted” that way.

That’s a pure guess. Watch the 40th Anniversary of BBC Question Time. Gina Miller was asked if she would have dragged the government through the courts if the referendum result was as to remain. She replied yes, to ensure it was done legally.

If MPs were obligated to support the result of the 2016, why did so many go out of their way to overturn the vote held on 29 March 2017. Extensions and the Benn Act does not sound like the action of MPs who were obligated to support the 2016 referendum result.

Regards Russia, I represented their oil company, LukOil, for several years in Iraq. They outperformed the established western operators such as; Shell, ENI and BP by achieving first oil quicker. In appreciation, the Iraqi government paid the same large bonus to all LukOil employees regardless of their position in the company.

@Talkinpeace

I am a UK citizen with a Bulgarian residency permit. Never been to Hungary.

Once we leave the ECHR, that would be the door shut forever, wouldn't it? Our human rights wouldn't be good enough to even negotiate reentry.

So @GlobeTrotter2000 you were born in Bulgaria or have residency permit via marriage? Just trying to understand your cultural influences.
I do think a lot of people in Eastern Europe or with Eastern European roots can feel differently about the EU. I think going from being under Soviet rule and rules to under EU rules can affect sentiment.
However, it was not like that in England. We had our own specific deal which we had insisted on, the British way. We were not somehow conquered by the EU. We are the ones with a colonial past. What happened here is that some people convicted a whole lot of people that the EU are the baddies taking our money etc and that we would be better off “out”, couple in a quite a bit of social media manipulation, voter apathy and voila, that gave us Brexit. It was not some big deliberate act, it was rather random, taken by surprise. It was more of a historical anomaly. The whole thing was rather absurd really.
I really do not think there is this huge appetite amongst the younger generation to stay distant from Europe. I think it is just where we find ourselves currently. We know the vote was age skewed. We are unlikely to be able to undo the damage and what will happen in the future will be different than the original deal we had when we were still members. However, a closer relationship with Europe is inevitable, in the long run. Every other European country not in the EU is also in a constant negotiation with their closest geographical partners. So every generation is going to keep taking stock and discussing how to trade with their closest neighbours and on what terms.

Funny how Globe can AI find reams and reams of meaningless screed about numbers of MPs, and yet is entirely unable to find a link to a supposed list of benefits.

It's almost as if they are entirely imaginary...

Bulgaria,
Even further from the UK.
Making the AI screeds even more irrelevant.

So @GlobeTrotter2000
What is your expert guess on when the countries around you will join the EU ?
Particularly Moldova.

Yup MaybeNotBob.

This morning I was reading through my usual diet of State media Propaganda, and I saw a story about Japan fortifying an island to make it an unsinkable aircraft carrier. Oh, I thought, I wanna do a quick fact check. Just out of armchair interest, because state propaganda interests me.

With VPN off, I BINGED it. Got the story I was reading, but I also saw the same headline on a US thinktank site, from 5 days ago. Clicked. That site was blocked.

So VPN on, got the western site, and lo and behold, it was a report issued as a press release by the same state media who were now reporting it as news.

So it was circular news. Source and final are the same, but it is filtered through international institutions to give it credibility. It's clever and crude at the same time.

It reminded me of @GlobeTrotter2000 using his pro Brexit site as a source.

Now, I am not saying the pro-Brexit site is disinformation. But it was defo biased. So the bias is transmitted, and possibly amplified.

It's a common trick. Instead of citing the base data, refer to the bias site, that puts a spin on the base data.

The thing is, for firm activists I think that is fair enough. It's not strictly dishonest. The problem is of course, is that same source is used by the other folk who might have different motives. And use the spun data dishonestly.

So for the people who have well thought out and logical reasons for Brexit, these sites are great for putting on bit of spin, and getting their message out.

However, it is a bit of a shame that they are keeping these well thought out and logical reasons to themselves.

Why won't they share them MayBeNotBob ?

Baffles me. Come on Globetrotter, spill the beans. Why are you all keeping these benefits secret from us all ?

As an add to my above post, I think threads like these can be difficult. Trying to be a good faith poster, play the ball not the player, all the usual debate clichés. How to debate a poster who is maybe not following the rules of polite debate .

I have no idea.

But I think such is the power and subtlety of propaganda, that some folk who have fell for it are not aware they have, and when push comes to shove, they can't fight fairly from their corner. Invite them to punch back at a point you make, and it appears their gloves have fallen off.

I am not saying that's the case here. Of course not. That would be rude.

Maybe the solution is to help your opponent glove up again.

I want to try: Benefits of Brexit.

Blue passports. (Printed in France).

erm.... Help ?

Duty Free! That was hailed as a benefit (I find it hard to believe even the hard of thinking could fall for that).

Good one. I raise you bananas. Under EU regs, most bananas had to be longer than 14cm long. Now we can get wee bananas. Of course, under EU regs, there was exceptions to the banana length rule, but now we can get wee banana's from anywhere we want. I have mentioned this here before.

@RedTagAlan
@MaybeNotBob

The Benefits/Positives of Brexit question has been asked and answered many times on MN. Both on the AIBU and Brexit sections.

Maybe read them. Or start another thread. However, be prepared for the same responses.

Maybe ask the 498 MPs why they voted leave in 2017 as their names are known. If that doesn’t work and is considered too far back, ask the leaders of the main parties why their 2024 manifestos did not include rejoin of the EU. They must have reasons for their decisions.

@MaybeNotBob

For someone who travels between the EU and the UK often, duty free is a benefit as I can buy duty free in both directions of travel.

How about you pop over to those threads and cut and paste a few of the benefits here ?

While researching for the above couple of posts, I searched the web for benefits, and got this.

Your Brexit Benefits – Global Britain

I suspect this is a spoof site. It's gotta be.

But the about page says this : "Founded twenty years ago, Global Britain is committed to safeguarding the rights and interests of Britons on the international stage."

The history of the org says this : "Global Britain sought to provide the positive business case for the UK to leave the European Union and published a wealth of research briefs and papers to that end. Now that the argument for an outward-facing, sovereign, democratic United Kingdom has been won Global Britain is committed to ensuring that our politicians do not betray the 17.4 million Britons that voted for change".

Checkout benefit number 50 : "#50 INDEPENDENT TRADE POLICY ALLOWS FOR UK ARTISTS TO RECEIVE ROYALTIES ON AUSTRALIAN RESALES"

i am going to bookmark that site.

@Araminta1003

So, GlobeTrotter, you were born in Bulgaria or have residency permit via marriage? Just trying to understand your cultural influences

I was born in the UK to UK parents who are UK citizens by birth. My father is half Irish from his mother.

I took up Bulgarian residency in 2003 when I worked there initially from 2003 to 2006. And later again 2017-2018. I spend more time in Bulgaria than anywhere else. So, Bulgaria is deemed to be my place of residence based on ownership of property and the time I am in country.

Bulgaria joined the EU on 1st January 2007, but it doesn’t seem to have helped them. The more able people quickly left for higher earnings in Western Europe. Before joining the EU, poverty in Bulgaria was 1 in 5. Now it’s 1 in 3.