Brexit mega thread part 15a - looking forwards

[Talkinpeace]

Just rebooting the most recent thread

At the moment the UKs issues are rather over shadowed by events elsewhere
but maybe that is a good thing.

The German election on Sunday is worth watching
Right wing European politicians pulling out of CPAC speeches because they realise its not a good look
Farage floundering to stay relevant

and the possibility of the return of free movement for our kids if not us

Relations between mainland Europe and the UK remain a worthy topic for discussion

Gove: "we were too anxious as a government to secure those deals in order to show that Brexit was working".

🦄

These threads were part of why I applied to MNHQ to get my account back after my long holiday.

They will continue
so long as the lies and harm of Brexit exist

Poll in the Times, of all places, going well for Nigel Farright...

https://compass.pressekompass.net/compasses/timesredbox/is-farage-responsible-for-the-economys-troubles-because-of-brexit-_timesredbox

https://www.ft.com/content/a65fb9b9-a955-4a5d-80dd-bce014dc1cd2

I'll ask this question now since this thread is reaching an end. Would it be acceptable to the regulars on these threads if a pro-Brexit poster, i.e. me, starts the next one?

It really depends which one. I mean, you talk consistent sense even if I do disagree with almost all of it. Other posters on this thread just regurgitate endless gibberish.

Well, it's quite a slow moving thread, as befits the slow motion train crash unfolding, so I don't think we need to worry particularly urgently.

Frankly, I don't care who starts the next thread, as long as they don't think it gives them some sort of proprietary governance on what people post.

And the title isn't some shit like "Brexit - Isn't Farage wonderful"...

@LouiseCollins28
I have no issue with that, so long as you recognise that most of us are anti Brexit.
If you look back in time, I had to do 15a because Globe's opener of 15 put everybody off posting.

The negatives of Brexit are still piling up
and affect the pro Brexit voters more than they do many of us remainers.
That must not be ignored.

I remember what happened the last time I tried. Someone immedaitely set up a new thread.

So basically @Talkinpeace from your reply, you're saying that I've had to put up with the negative framing of virtually every intial post on these threads, going back years, yet you won't allow me to start a single one with a positive take on Brexit?

No one can stop you starting a thread.

If you can put a positive spin on it feel free to do so but maybe stay away from the British Empire references.

yet you won't allow me to start a single one with a positive take on Brexit?

By all means if you can find one!

You're welcome to start as many threads as you wish.

But everyone is equally entitled to ignore and post what they want should they wish.

As for starting with a positive take on Brexit...

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

@Talkinpeace

They will continue so long as the lies and harm of Brexit exist.

Brexit will have made some people worse off, but what proof can you provide that demonstrates everyone is worse off?

The negatives of Brexit are still piling up
and affect the pro Brexit voters more than they do many of us remainers.
That must not be ignored.

Again, no evidence provided.

What are the negatives that are piling up?

How have you been able to segregate pro Brexit voters and remainers and determine that the alleged piling up of negatives have less effect on remain supporters?

@MaybeNotBob

as long as they don't think it gives them some sort of proprietary governance on what people post

Yet another:

Remainers know better because we say so.

@Peregrina

yet you won't allow me to start a single one with a positive take on Brexit?
By all means if you can find one!

Like, DuncinToffee, you are referred to all the previous threads on MN regards benefits of Brexit. Many posters have examples of how they had benefited from Brexit.

You, like DuncinToffee, seem to be applying the same logic as many others on MN, which is:

If Brexit is not a benefit for me, it can’t be a benefit to anyone.

@LouiseCollins28

Start a “Positives of Brexit” thread if you wish, but be aware it has been done many times before. Mostly by remain supporters I would say.

They follow the same pattern. People list a benefit, then remain pile in with comments such as, if memory is correct,

“but that does not apply to everyone”

Pointless answer as people were giving examples of how they benefited. To give a benefit that applied to everyone would require knowledge of what 10s of millions of people are thinking which is not possible.

”you can’t disprove what I am saying”

This seems to be a regular occurrence, but overlooks the fact that there is no such thing as burden of disproof.

Based on the fact that pro Brexit parties have won the last three general elections since the 2016 referendum, I would say the number of people who are happy with Brexit is greater than the number who are unhappy.

Another load of old cobblers from the GlobalGPT. Straw man arguments galore, and primary school debating club tactics to the fore.

Frankly, Louise can start any thread, but it'll only degenerate into useless nonsense when Global starts posting vast screeds of nonsensical gibberish as per usual...

It's also very repetitive.

Where then are the fifteen threads about the benefits of Brexit?

https://www.politico.eu/article/labour-liberal-dems-british-brexit-migration-eu-immigration-movement-vote/

Brits are pining for the pre-Brexit migration system

The idea was that leaving the bloc would give the U.K. back “control” of its borders and create a fairer system. But the widespread perception is it didn’t turn out that way.

It's a bit ironic that Global's main Primary School argument is "what proof can you provide that demonstrates everyone is worse off?", when the only examples it gives of benefits are benefits to itself, or, possibly, to one other person that it claims to have met.

But then we don't expect Brexiteers to have any self-awareness...

@Peregrina

There have been numerous threads in MN where people have asked what are the benefits of Brexit. Many posters have listed how they have gained by Brexit. The most recent I remember was in December 2023 titled one positive of Brexit. Search them.

@MaybeNotBob

Again, you are applying the incorrect logic that there’s a burden to disprove. There is no such thing as a burden to disprove.

Remain supporters are making the statement that everyone is worse off, but when asked to provide proof they don’t.

To provide a list of how people have gained or lost from Brexit would require personal knowledge of how 10s of millions voted and what they are thinking. This is impossible.

The OP made the statement

Negatives of Brexit are piling up,

but when asked to name them there was no answer.

They also went in to state,

the negatives affect pro Brexit more than remain.

To make that conclusion they must have been able to segregate people into who voted remain or leave, but when asked how they were able to do that there was no answer.

@DuncinToffee

The Liberal Democrat’s received 600,000 fewer votes than Reform in the 2024 general election.

But the widespread perception is it didn’t turn out that way.

The key word is perception as opposed to proof. However, what is provable is that immigration into the UK is lower than; Germany, France, Spain Italy.

My question;

If the majority of people are worse off due Brexit, why is that the last three general elections have not been won by remain/rejoin parties remains unanswered.

Yawn...

Because people were fools believing Boris Johnson's 'oven ready deal' and his 'funny' personage

The rejoin party didn't stand in many places

Labour is starting to recognise the damage of Brexit.

@MaybeNotBob

Yawn

How does that answer the questions?

@DuncinToffee

Labour is starting to recognise the damage of Brexit

So, why have they not triggered Article 49 to make an application to rejoin the EU? With the number of seats they have in parliament they could get anything passed.

Because they're not valid questions. They're your usual load of non-sequiturs and associated nonsense...

They could get anything passed

Just wave a magic wand 🦄

@MaybeNotBob

Again the questions are not answered.

It’s a fact that pro Brexit parties have won all three general elections since the 2016 referendum.

It’s also a fact that the opportunity to cancel Brexit was presented in the 2019 general election, but the Liberal Democracts received fewer votes than in 2017.

Labour’s 2024 manifesto said that the UK would not join the customs union or the single market. They also acknowledged that immigration was too high.

@DuncinToffee

To trigger Article 49 would require an act of Parliament in the same way as it was required in March 2017 to trigger Article 50 to leave the EU.

Labour has over 400 seats in Parliament. That’s more than enough to make an act assuming that all Labour MPs are in favour of rejoining the EU.

However, trigger of article 49 does not guarantee that the EU will accept an application to rejoin. It only takes one member to say no. There lies the problem. I would say several members will say no.

Also, what would happen to the trade deals made by the UK since Brexit that were not sanctioned by the EU? Will the US agree the reduce tariffs on the EU if UK rejoins?