Brexit MegaThread - part 14

[Peregrina]

Thread 13. We had a debate about whether there should be a new one but if no one answers this the whole series after 8 years plus will come to their end.

Brexit happened, although one time Leavers do not seem to appreciate this.
It's worth noting I think that Brexit was a Tory initiative and the Tory party has just received its worse electoral thrashing since 1832. Could it be entirely unrelated?

What next? A gradual rapprochement with the EU? A Norway style agreement?

St. Kemi has already admitted they didn't.

And - to echo the "how many voted do you want ?" taunt of the Brexiteers, I think the valid - and damning - retort is "how many goes do you want at Brexit ?"

If we want to pursue the road to rejoining, we must emphasize at each and every turn brexit is done. Brexiteers really hate that (as this thread shows).

We've had Brexit. And if it's shit because it "wasn't done properly" well, that was the risk you took when you voted for a fucking slogan and then voted for Boris fucking Johnson to deliver it. That is all on you.

With Farage disowning Brexit and getting as far away from it as possible, the door to advancing rejoin is very slightly ajar now. Its fascinating to see how the falling tide is exposing peoples positions.

Donald Tusk has asked Starmer to consider a Breturn

What about the dog that didn't bark in the night ?

Yes Brexit is done. Johnson had a good majority with a mandate to 'Get Brexit Done' so people who voted for him gave him carte blanche to do what he wanted.

A fact which needs to be rammed down every Brexiteers throat until they are as sick of it as "You lost, get over it" (and worse).

I cannot emphasize the metaphor that Brexit was bought with a dud cheque that can never be cashed. No matter how many times the poor deluded souls try.

Caught my eye
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgkjjkjy4p8o

In the European Union, every member state is required to introduce at least one form of digital ID by 2026.

Interesting thought that Jane. I'd go with you insofar as I don't think one person's vision of Brexit delivered, say Farage's, could be fully realised because it conflicted so clearly with other people's projections of what the same result would mean.

Boris, while he had a very healthy majority in Dec 2019 had a pademic hit within 3 months that took up the next 2 years, and had a wildy different vision of Brexit from Farage in any event (if Boris had one). A reminder to anyone reading that, I'm no sort of Boris 'apologist', I'm not a fan and I never was.

I still think that more benefits could be realised now, and could have been realised between Dec 2019 and now were it not for 2 things. 1) Lack of opportunity - mostly due to the pandemic taking up 2 years of all of the energy of government and many, many other actors. 2) Lack of willing partners which I'd attribute overwhelmingly to Joe Biden being in the WH for 4 years.

Anyhow that's all old ground now. The interesting bit is what happens next and i'd point to 4 key factors driving what might change:

UK Government now making noises about a 'reset' with the EU
EU much, much more security focussed than they were in 2020 or 2016
Governments in some large EU members under more pressure from the right
President Trump in the White House from Monday

Anyone expecting Trump to somehow "rescue" Brexit is beyond delusional...

He did do that so well last time.........

Tariffs is his favourite word

None of which means Brexiteers deserve (or are getting) a second bite of the cherry. If Remainers had to deal with losing, Brexiteers have to deal with the Brexit they got. And trying to change history the terms of "Brexit" merely reinforces rather than negates it.

Remember how "project fear" warned that in the event of a Leave win, there would never be a definition of leaving that would satisfy the vote ? If you aren't happy with the Brexit you got, whether you like it or not, and whether you admit it or not, you are confirming at least one outcome that was predicted. Makes you wonder what else was correct too, doesn't it ?

Trump's foreign policy is entirely transactional.
We let him use his golf courses, he has no other interest in the UK

Indeed. Maybe that's actually not such a bad thing.

I am intrigued at the suggestion that we have a ceasefire in Gaza because the Israelis suddenly had a realisation that having an unstable man-child (advised by even less stable child-children) may not be in their interests at all. Especially if said man-child has a really pathetic urge to at least equal Obama and get himself a Nobel Peace Prize.

Hence the indecent rush to sign a deal before 20th January.

Let's keep a close eye on the Feather in a Fart jar that is Farage*. He may yet decide that being too close to Trumps orbit costs too much political credibility.

*Alliteration is a curse once you get hooked. Kids - stay away from dictionaries. The fewer words you know the better.

I expect no such thing and I've not suggested that I do.

I'm not trying to 'change the terms of Brexit' either, I've never had any power whatever to determine them, besides voting for it.

Why are some posters on here so obsessed seemingly with rehashing old arguments? Much more interesting to speculate on the future I think.

>obsessed seemingly with rehashing old arguments

Because nothing that was predicted by brexiteers has come true and virtually everything predicted by remainers has - albeit over a longer timescale. They're not old arguments, they're just truth.

Why are some posters on here so obsessed seemingly with rehashing old arguments? Much more interesting to speculate on the future I think.

Yes. Let's get on with rebuilding ties with Europe with an end goal of rejoining

That's my future.

Mine too I hope @SerendipityJane

@LouiseCollins28
Brexit caused me the loss of many things and gained me nothing.
I will keep fighting to get good things
and get rid of bad things.
That is sane.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq5g48yx0dvo

But needless to say, our Government has pooh poohed it immediately. Not bothered to say 'we will consider all proposals.'

while at the same time announcing more bungs for non doms

their political compass points in very odd directions

Since Brexit, UK pilot’s qualifications are no longer recognised in the EU and planes have to fly to America or Brazil for maintenance

https://www.cityam.com/brexit-has-left-the-uk-aviation-sector-up-in-the-air/

@FrankieStein403
@Peregrina
@SerendipityJane
@Zonder
@Talkinpeace
@prettybird
@mathanxiety
@DuncinToffee
@HannibalHeyes

What prevents you from forming your own party to campaign for Article 49, the mechanism to rejoin the EU?

@LouiseCollins28

You are correct, it’s the same silly worn out arguments since 23 June 2016; examples include:

1, The referendum was not binding. This overlooks the fact that Article 50 was triggered by 498 MPs on 29 March 2017.

2, People were lied to. This overlooks the following facts:

Boris Johnson was taken to court about the red bus, but judges dismissed the case.

If people thought they had been lied to, what prevented them from voting for the Liberal Democrat party in the 2019 general election?

3, All three general elections held since 29 March 2017 have been won by Brexit supporting parties.

The list could go on.

What prevents you from forming your own party to campaign for Article 49, the mechanism to rejoin the EU?

Oh you are funny @GlobeTrotter2000 like we all have time and money for that! Some of us have actual lives and families and all that 😊

As for the rest of your post, people have answered all those points. No reason to do it again if you're just going to reiterate the same old mantra.

Running out of steam @GlobeTrotter2000 ?

How many times do we need to tell you GlobeTrotter2000 ?

You have got your Brexit.

If we choose to campaign for another relationship with the EU leading to an eventual rejoining then we are perfectly entitled to do so.