Brexit MegaThread - part 14

[Peregrina]

Thread 13. We had a debate about whether there should be a new one but if no one answers this the whole series after 8 years plus will come to their end.

Brexit happened, although one time Leavers do not seem to appreciate this.
It's worth noting I think that Brexit was a Tory initiative and the Tory party has just received its worse electoral thrashing since 1832. Could it be entirely unrelated?

What next? A gradual rapprochement with the EU? A Norway style agreement?

Apparently it found 1 benefit

Blue passports?

@SerendipityJane

Spain’s proposed tax on properties bought by non-EU residents is to alleviate their housing crisis and make it easier for locals to get on the property ladder. Something that the UK should have considered long ago, particularly for London properties.

However, it will not prevent wealthy persons from EU countries from buying in Spain. So, properties previously bought by non-EU countries such as UK, will be bought by France and Germany instead as their purchasing power will be increased if there is less competition from the UK. So, not a lot of benefit to locals unless there is a large increase in construction of new houses.

I would imagine that Cyprus are delighted with Spain’s suggestion.

I wonder what prompted that ?

@Talkinpeace

Yup, and loving the fact that we will need visas from this summer and to allow an extra travel day for the queues at customs.

You obviously don’t travel in and out of the Schengen area each week like I do.

The digital EES ID is done at the self service system on arrival. It’s similar to a self service check in machine, but with the facility to take finger prints. Once the ID is created, it lasts three years.

So, when you arrive at the passport checkpoint, you will place your index fingers on the scanner both on arrival and departure. The scan is done simultaneously while the passport controller is looking at the passport. Hence, it does not add time.

@SerendipityJane

I wonder what prompted that ?

Maybe Trumps talk about taking over Greenland?

@Zonder

This is more because our billionaire population has increased both in number and wealth, than any kind of general improvement in wealth across the population.

As per Forbes 2024, the number of billionaires were:

Germany 132
UK 55
France 53

For 2016, the figure were;

Germany 120
UK 50
France 39

So, Germany has more than double that of the UK even though their population is not double.

France’s growth is much higher, 36% compared to 10% for Germany and the UK

2024 Poverty Rate;

Germany 22%
UK 18%
France 14.5%

2016 Poverty Rate;

Germany 15.7%
UK 21%
France 12.5%

So, UK poverty rate has declined since 2016. Whereas, the poverty rate in both France and Germany has increased since 2016z

All data taken from wiki and statistics

And I can't stand the guy

Going back to Greenland, both it and the Faroes are part of the Kingdom of Denmark. The Faroes have never been in the EU and don't want to be, but the Kingdom of Denmark being in the EU does give both countries a sort of half in half out status.

Globe seems to forget that I know Dover customs clearance very well

its algorithm is very repetitive

Since the volume of goods traffic is so low for both the Faroes and Greenland practically everything will be subject to the full WTO regulated customs for everything so they are just normalised to needing extra hassle so will have the facilities ready to do it UNLIKE the UK that NEEDS simplified trading as part of a LARGE trading block to make it's industry viable.

Not as LARGE as it used to be.

Badenoch in her speech today saying it was a mistake not to have a growth plan for Brexit

It highlights that she doesn't understand what happened.
There was no growth plan that all parts of the Leave coalition could have agreed on.

Winning required implying different outcomes to different people.

@SerendipityJane

I guess Lord Sugar has forgotten the following historical facts:

Article 50 was triggered by an act of parliament, not by the outcome of the referendum held 23 June 2016.

Boris Johnson was taken to court about the red bus and the 350 million, but the case was dismissed.

In 2018, the EU advised the UK they could revoke article 50 unilaterally, but the UK chose not to.

Had the 16.1 million who voted Remain on 23 June 2016 voted LibDems in the 2019 general election, Article 50 would have been revoked.

Labour won 400+ seats in the 2024 general election. With that size of majority, they could trigger article 49 to rejoin the EU with ease, but they have not.

@Talkinpeace

So, when customs clearance becomes more automated, like the EES for persons crossing borders, your job becomes less secure?

Article 50 was triggered by an act of parliament, not by the outcome of the referendum held 23 June 2016.

You've tried this before. Surely you're not trying to pretend that the two are not connected? There would never have been a triggering of article 50 were it not for the "will of the people" being shown through the referendum.

Some politicians voted to trigger it not because they believed in it but because they believed they had to follow the outcome of the referendum. Can you imagine what would have happened if they had all declared it was only advisory and they had decided to vote against the advice? Farage would have been ubiquitous.

You tried this before

No shit

I have to assume that when Globetrotter makes a mistake in his or her personal life, instead of reviewing the situation and making changes, they keep on with the same course of action. I.e. being in a hole and keeping on digging.

It's what they are doing here.

I agree. i think this is a very valid point. I remember saying years ago, pre-referendum, that even if people vote for it, lots of the people who do are not going to get what they want.

Now, I'd qualify that with the benefit of hindsight in the sense that Brexit happened so on a narrow reading of the 'outcome' those people got exactly what they voted for, the UK left.

On a broader reading of the sort of economic and social outcomes that were suggested post a Leave vote I still think it's true though, lots of people who voted for it haven't yet (and may never) get what they wanted.

One mega important reason for this, and a key factor behind not having a post-Brexit plan for growth IMO, is that Vote Leave weren't the government and it would have been utterly wrong to treat them post referendum as if they were.

That did mean that post brexit planning was in the hands of a government which (until 2017 at least, I'd say didn't really want it to happen) Whatever the goverment though I think it's true to say that there wasn't a plan to maximise the ecomomic opportunities. There might have been more of one to minimise the economic harms, focusing on that might explain why there wasn't such a plan for growth.

All very interesting.

However, it's also very gently and subtly (so obviously not Kemis intention, but someone who knows how easy she is to mould) starting a narrative that Brexit has failed with a subtext that somehow we "need" to have another run at it.

Which is a double edged sword. Because if Brexit has failed (not yet a universal truth, merely an objective one) then by what right should there be another go at it ?

Obviously if Brexit hasn't failed as Farage and others are in agreement about, then no need to revisit it.

All of which is to be discussed against a backdrop that is very different to 2016.

The leave campaign had everything they wanted. A majority vote. A government pledged to implement the result, followed by another government pledged to implement the result followed by another government solely elected to "get Brexit done".

If having thrown all that firepower at it - including some of the most talented politicians the UK has ever been blessed with - Brexit still hasn't produced gold-shitting unicorns in everyones back garden then maybe - just maybe - there's a problem with the universe. Has anyone asked a scientist ?

The TL;DR is that Kemi seems to be thinking she'll get herself elected by promising to "Get Brexit Done (again)" without really understanding what she is saying. Or how it will sound.

In today's no shit Sherlock news...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/jan/16/uk-trade-eu-post-brexit-rules-ippr-report?CMP=share_btn_url

Rewrite of post Brexit rules?!
Maybe someone should have thought this might happen beforehand.