Brexit MegaThread - part 14

[Peregrina]

Thread 13. We had a debate about whether there should be a new one but if no one answers this the whole series after 8 years plus will come to their end.

Brexit happened, although one time Leavers do not seem to appreciate this.
It's worth noting I think that Brexit was a Tory initiative and the Tory party has just received its worse electoral thrashing since 1832. Could it be entirely unrelated?

What next? A gradual rapprochement with the EU? A Norway style agreement?

Should have said it's a poll, so feel free to click'n'vote.

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/brits-face-extra-charges-to-visit-top-french-attractions-because-of-brexit-384797/

Wow I didn't see that one coming Serendipity.

I know. Typical Gallic arrogance - using their sovereignty to protect their culture and make money at the same time at the expense of us luckless Brits.

Don't the Frogs know who we are?

Edwin Hayward
@edwinhayward

In 2016, the UK voted to leave the EU. Here's a 'Sliding Doors' style look at what we could have won had the Brexit vote gone the other way. (It's also a bare bones blueprint for some of the potential benefits that could be touted by a future Rejoin movement.) Each section below covers one particular aspect of EU membership.

1. Economic Benefits:

• Full, unfettered access to the largest trading bloc in the world
• Significant administrative savings due to absence of customs and other documentation for EU trade
• No additional VAT or duties on goods imported from or exported to the EU
• Participation in EU trade agreements with over 70 non-EU countries
• Frictionless borders enabling just-in-time manufacturing, crucial for automotive, aerospace and other sectors
• Financial passporting for City of London firms, allowing financial services companies authorized in the UK to operate throughout the EU without needing separate authorization in each member state.
• Faster delivery times across the EU - Streamlined international supply chains - Open access to the EU market for UK fish exports
• Participation in the EU Single Energy Market - Simplified VAT procedures for cross-border trade
• Access to EU structural and regional development funding
• Participation in the EU Emissions Trading System (ETS)
• Common Agricultural Policy (CAP) subsidies for farmers
• Easy access to a willing seasonal agricultural workforce
• Simplified process for recognition of professional qualifications across the EU
• Economies of scale for businesses operating across the EU
• Increased attractiveness for foreign investors (the "UK as gateway to Europe" vision of Margaret Thatcher)
• Protection for foods of geographical origin (e.g., Melton Mowbray pork pies)
• Venture capital funding and startup loans from EU programs
• Products made in the UK can be sold in over 30 countries without extra approval
• Right to offer services all over the EU on the same basis as to UK clients
• Support for SMEs through the Enterprise Europe Network, European SME Week, and funding through programs like the InvestEU SME window

2.Travel, and Freedom of Movement:

• Freedom for UK citizens to travel, work, study and retire anywhere in the EU
• Freedom for EU citizens to travel, work, study and retire in the UK
• No 90-in-180 day limit on how long UK citizens can holiday in the EU
• Exemption from upcoming EES and ETIAS border systems
• Access to fast EU queues at EU airports and ports
• EU-wide mobile phone roaming at domestic rates
• Access to home content on streaming services while travelling in the EU
• Driving licenses valid all over the EU
• Multi-year pet passports for easy travel with pets

3.Education and Research:

• Extensive scientific and academic collaboration
• Participation in Horizon Europe research program
• Participation in Erasmus program, offering university student exchanges, and opportunities for apprentices, teachers and youth workers.
• Right to study in EU universities at the same lower home fees as locals
• Mutual recognition of academic and many professional qualifications
• Access to state-of-the-art EU research facilities

4.Consumer Rights and Protections:

• Enhanced consumer protections, including for cross-border shopping
• Strong food labelling regulations
• Mandatory minimum 2-year warranty period on goods
• Right to cancel and return orders within 14 days
• Legally enforced 14-day cooling-off period on timeshare agreements
• No surcharges on credit and debit card transactions

• Protection under EU's Passenger Rights regulations for all modes of transport

5.Health and Safety:

• European Health Insurance Card (EHIC) for access to medically-necessary state provided healthcare during temporary stays in the EU
• Quicker access to safe/new medicines
• Enhanced medical research partnerships
• Single system of chemical regulation (REACH)
• Participation in EURATOM for vital medical isotopes
• High toy safety standards
• Participation in the EU Early Warning and Response System for pandemics
• Coordinated approach to rare diseases
• High food safety standards
• Participation in the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control (ECDC), enhancing the UK's ability to respond to health threats

6.Workers' Rights:

• Secure baseline of worker protections, including limits on working hours, guaranteed rest breaks, and a minimum of 4 weeks paid leave annually
• Equal treatment across the EU: Workers from any EU country must be given the same salary conditions and rights as local staff when working in other EU countries
• Protection for agency workers
• Protection under the EU's Working Time Directive
• Strong EU directives against workplace discrimination based on gender, race, religion, disability, age, or sexual orientation

7.Environmental Protection:

• Significant environmental protections
• Cleaner air backed by the EU Air Quality Directive
• Cleaner beaches and stronger penalties for untreated sewage discharges
• Protection of 500 bird species under EU legislation
• Participation in EU environmental initiatives like the European Green Deal
• Strong protection against GM food and chlorinated chicken
• Access to EU environmental funding through programs such as LIFE
• Participation in the EU Emissions Trading System (ETS) for carbon credits

8.Citizenship and Legal Rights:

• EU citizenship, with additional rights and protections
• Right to vote in local and European elections when living in any EU country
• Access to European Court of Justice
• Enhanced human rights protection through the Charter of Fundamental Rights - Right to petition the European Parliament
• Consular protection from any EU embassy in countries where the UK itself has no embassy presence
• European Citizens' Initiative, allowing any citizen to directly influence EU policy by collecting sufficient signatures on matters in which the EU has competence

9.Data and Digital Rights:

• Strong data protection laws (GDPR)
• Right to be forgotten
• Access to personal data held by companies
• Participation in EU digital initiatives, such as the Digital Single Market
• EU-wide protection for .eu domain names
• Stronger collective stance against global tech giants
• Legally enforced net neutrality

10. Cultural and Creative Industries:

• EU Creative Europe funding to support British film, theatre, and music industries
• Free movement for musicians, artists, and their equipment, including no need for visas or work permits
• Participation in European Capital of Culture program
• Participation in European Heritage Label initiative

11. Security and International Cooperation:

• Support for the Good Friday Agreement and active promotion of the Irish peace process
• Cooperation on security issues and access to shared crime databases
• Participation in European Arrest Warrant system
• Cooperation on counter-terrorism efforts
• EU-wide coordination on cybersecurity threats
• Collaboration on migration issues
• Participation in EU's common foreign and security policy
• Collaborative space exploration and participation in Galileo GPS system
• Support for democracy and human rights globally
• Disaster relief funding (e.g. flood relief)
• Access to real-time security databases such as the Schengen Information System (SIS II) and the European Criminal Records Information System (ECRIS)

12. Political Influence:

• A say in the running of the EU, including British MEPs and representation at all levels
• The right to appoint British judges to the ECJ and commissioners to the European Commission
• Influence on setting EU budget and priorities
• More powerful presence on world stage as part of EU bloc
• Stronger voice in international forums
• Greater leverage in global trade negotiations
• Collaboration with EU partners to hold large multinational corporations accountable for taxes
• Voting power in the Council of the EU

13. Social and Community Benefits:

• EU-wide social security coordination
• Access to funding for community development projects
• Initiatives providing support for regional and minority languages such as Welsh
• Support for social inclusion and equality initiatives
• Access to EU funding for disadvantaged areas

14. Future Potential and Shared Innovation:

• Collaborative research and development in cutting-edge fields like renewable energy, artificial intelligence, and biotechnology.
• United approach to global challenges such as climate change, migration, and health crises.

- Influence in shaping global standards for data protection, consumer rights, and environmental regulations.

• Joint investment in strategic technologies, including semiconductors and quantum computing.
• Coordinated efforts in space exploration and satellite technology.
• Shared initiatives for digital transformation and the growth of the digital economy.
• Collective development of sustainable and smart cities.

But hey, blue passports, right? Right?

And sovrinty. We get to make our own laws. Or something.

The UK (by which I mean the common people) is going to find itself crushed between the jaws of the EU and whatever the US becomes.

And that will not be an accident.

Either that or the UK will just become slightly invisible.

The UK: Come to the UK
Multimillionaires: Would that give us freedom to live work and study across 27 other countries with no paperwork ?
The UK: No. But sovereignty !
Multimillionaires: Arrivederci losers

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/tax/capital-gains/how-meloni-luring-britain-millionaires-italy-flat-rate-tax

Just picked up a Salter air fryer - online guarantee form states EU don't have to complete form and have automatic 2yr guarantee - UK have to complete form for any extended warranty beyond 12months.

not a brexit benefit

I'll set a calendar alert to start watching for Daily Mail sadface stories of people who didn't register their goods and lost the guarantee ....

@SerendipityJane

^www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14002281/Britain-rejoin-EU-former-Brussels-chief-predicts.html^

I thought as per remain supporters, it's only leave supporters who read and believe what the Daily Mail prints?

If the EU is better off with the UK, why would the EU want the UK to rejoin?

If 86% of the UK population wants to rejoin the EU, why did Brexit supporting parties win more than 14% of the vote in the most recent general election?

The UK (by which I mean the common people) is going to find itself crushed between the jaws of the EU and whatever the US becomes.

Will; Iceland, Norway and Switzerland, who have said they will never join the EU, be crushed too as they are geographically located between the EU and the US?

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/brits-face-extra-charges-to-visit-top-french-attractions-because-of-brexit-384797

So what? Where in law does it say that brits must visit France? As JRM once said on BBC QT to a member of the audience who had had to que in a Spanish airport:

"Go to Portugal instead where they have egates. Don't give your money to Spain if they don't want it"

Never forget that both France and Spain want the 90/180 Schengen guideline to be relaxed for UK visitors

@FrankieStein403

UK have to complete form for any extended warranty beyond 12months.

I can't see anyone being bothered about extended warranty for an item that costs less than 20 pounds. I have owned a 6 egg Salter egg boiler for many years and it has never failed once.

@MaybeNotBob

My UK passport has not prevented me from working in the EU.

Blah, blah, blah...

@IItisymoi

you have not presented any ACTUAL Brexit benefits for the greater populace of the UK after 8 years

There have been many threads which have asked "what are the benefits of Brexit" since the 23 June 2016. Many posters described what they considered to be the benefits of Brexit and gave examples of the advantages they had experienced.

UK population is Approx. 68 million. For a single poster to present benefits that apply to the greater populace, which I assume you mean IS more than 50%, is an impossibility. Nobody on the planet can say they know 34 million people personally.

What convinces me that the majority of the UK supports Brexit is based on the following timeline since 23 June 2016:

29 March 2017

498 elected MP's voted to trigger Article 50

12 December 2019

The LibDems stated in their Manifesto that if elected, Brexit would be revoked. Had the 16.1 million who voted remain in 2016 voted for the LibDems in 2019, this thread would not exist.

So, if the majority of UK voters thought Brexit was wrong, why did the LibDems not win in 2019?

What was in the LibDems 2019 manifesto that remain supporters considered to be worse than Brexit?

4 July 2024

Parties who stated they support Brexit won 72% of the vote. This equated to 538 seats.

Indeed. I'm having to do a lot of scrolling by again

For information, examples of the benefits I have experienced due to Brexit are:

I have been paid in USD or Euro since 2013. The pound falling against those currencies has been a big boost to my income. However, this is now slowing as the pound has strengthened as it edges closer to 1.25 Euro as it was before 23 June 2016.

The 90/180 Schengen guideline means that I spend less time in the EU since 1 January 2021 compared to before that date. My EU are clients happy too as it costs them less in hotels and travel expenses.

The EU introduction of the EES at passport control means I don't need to renew my passports as often as stamps are no longer required. This saves me money.

>I can't see anyone being bothered about extended warranty for an item that costs less than 20 pounds

Weird? Can you get an air fryer for < £20 - if so I was robbed, it was almost £70

EU passport stamps

Just what I was thinking!

So when we didn't get our passports stamped, we didn't need to renew them because the pages didn't fill up. So why is having a passport filled up and being forced to renew earlier a benefit? Why is having to stand in the queue to have them stamped a benefit?

Unless you have an EU passport of course.

Yeah, "A" being not very "I" again...

Just churning out garbage as is its wont.

So why is having a passport filled up and being forced to renew earlier a benefit?

ChatGPT says that it would provide extra income for the company that makes passports which is a benefit to the UK.