Can someone give me one benefit of Brexit.

[Tulipsroses]

It's going to be 4 years since we withdrew our membership in European Union. Apart from the passport colour (some people might prefer) can anyone name one positive change which happened since then.

It's all very well trying to rewrite history, but we all saw Farage's dog whistle racist anti immigration poster.

Marvellous, do you have the core inflation figures that remove the most volatile commodities, principally oil and gas?

So you like the Prime Minister are happy to have over a million people arriving in the Uk?
Are you like him of the view that it is fine as long as its not migrants fleeing persecution and war?

Do you honestly think that Sunak would be blundering through with this evil and idiotic Rwanda bill if immigration wasn't what they perceived to be a big issue amongst the kind of people who voted for Brexit and are therefore likely to be amenable to voting for them?

Come on, your arguments are getting desperate.

@HannibalHeyes It's all very well trying to rewrite history, but we all saw Farage's dog whistle racist anti immigration poster.

Still doesn’t answer the question which was; is there evidence that 17.4 million voted leave solely on a desire to see immigration figures decline?

@jgw1 Are you like him of the view that it is fine as long as its not migrants fleeing persecution and war?

Aren’t people from the Ukraine, who have been mostly welcomed by UK, not also fleeing from War?

Now you're being ridiculous. Nobody has said they all voted for the same reason. But are you denying that it was one of the most prominent reasons?

This attempted sophistry is disingenuous, and an attempt to mislead. Unless you're a shill I can't understand why you would be trying so hard to mislead people.

Perhaps the beginning of the end for the Tories!

@HannibalHeyes if immigration wasn't what they perceived to be a big issue amongst the kind of people who voted for Brexit and are therefore likely to be amenable to voting for them?

It’s the economy and cost of living that concerns people the most as opposed to Brexit as evidenced by fact that the major parties are not including rejoin in their policies in the run up to the next GE.

The EU has given Turkey billions in the hope that immigrants/refugees in Turkey won’t end up in the EU.

Rwanda is targeted at illegal immigrants.

Both Denmark and Germany have successfully returned all illegal Albanians to Albania as Albania is considered a safe country. For some reason, illegals who arrive in the UK from France are not being returned to France on the basis that France is a safe country.

This has been raised several times on QT, bit never explained.

Recent article in LeMonde estimates that 45% of French citizens think there is too much immigration in their country.

We're talking about Brexit! The cost of living crisis, Ukraine, etc., were not issues at the time of the vote!

Either you want to talk about why people voted, or you want to talk about what is going on now.

You are trying to conflate to two, to pretend that what happened didn't happen.

It's an obvious attempt to obfuscate, but it is still very irritating. And misleading.

@HannibalHeyes Nobody has said they all voted for the same reason.

Maybe you need to refer back to your earlier post which was:

HannibalHeyes · 12/12/2023 13:58

Is there any factual evidence o prove that 17.4 million are

"a bit stupid and a bit xenophobic"

Yes. They voted for Brexit...

@HannibalHeyes The cost of living crisis, Ukraine, etc., were not issues at the time of the vote!

Nor was Rwanda.

Who said Rwanda was an issue at the time of the vote? You really have lost the plot here!

As per my quote; Not all who voted for Brexit where xenophobic, some were stupid. Some were both.

I'm on the verge of giving up with your deliberate obfuscation, but I can tell you can't resist getting the last word in (even if it makes no sense). It's probably contractual...

I remember just after the vote to Leave sticking up for Leave voters and defending them against accusations of racism (and stupidity). Over the years since, I've actually changed my mind. Most (not all, just most) people I know who voted Leave ARE racists and this was the only thing they cared about, same on social media. I used to follow Vote Leave on Facebook (I think they might have been banned from FB in the end because of racism). They had two million followers at one point. Almost all they posts were just racist, anti immigrant bile, even celebrating the Grenfell Tower fire.

Every racist group in the UK was massively supportive of Brexit.
Britain First
EDL
Patriotic Alternative
National Action
That football supporters one
The lot. Not one supported Remain.

The other thing I've noticed over the years is that Leave supporters
never. ever, ever acknowledge the appeal of Brexit for racists and the support
they had for it, despite all the evidence. Maybe you could be the first to
admit just how much racist support Leave had? Somehow I doubt you will though.

Agree, I defended leave voters as not being stupid or racist. Not all were racist. But many were ignorant / stupid. Racism did drive the argument. And now we are truly screwed.
Many have said really silly things like ... I didn't want to be told what to do. You idiot. The EU will still make the rules it's our largest trading partner. 60% of exports. And I think similar imports. Just that now we have no say in it.

Also .. many said I didn't understand it so I didn't vote.

How many of the over a million people who moved to the UK last year were from Ukraine?

I presume by illegals you mean those asylum seekers who are not granted asylum?

Given that this year is expected to have the highest ever proportion of asylum seekers granted asylum I think it is safe to assume that less than 1% of migrants to the UK this year will these illegals that you are so worried about.

Unless these illegals are French citizens, which currently seems somewhat unlikely then there is no basis in law to return them to France. The relevant UK and international (as insisted upon by the British government when those laws were created) permits asylum seekers to transit other countries on the way to the place that they want to seek asylum.

It was the outright racism of the Leave campaign that convinced me to vote remain. I could not bring myself to vote the same way as people filled with such hate for other people.

I'm sure it wasn't the only reason. The big red bus advertising £350m a week for the NHS has to have been another reason.

However I'm sure I'm not the only one who remembers regular slots on the news / local news talking to people in the street who were voting Brexit because they wanted to stop the Syrians coming over here.

Thus also adding to the pile of evidence that some leave voters may not have been the brightest...

None a dreadful mistake and a lie that the dumb were fed

A lot of leave voters were sold the lie that it was Independence Day.
It was exclusion day from the worlds 2nd biggest trading market and our leading role in it.
It was rip up European cooperation day.

@HannibalHeyes

The question is was;

Is there any factual evidence to prove that 17.4 million are

"a bit stupid and a bit xenophobic"

It was not an either or between stupid and xenophobic, but both at the same time. Your reply was;

Yes. They voted for Brexit..

So, your “factual evidence” is based on how people voted anonymously.

@Zonder I'm sure it wasn't the only reason. The big red bus advertising £350m a week for the NHS has to have been another reason.

I agree. It was the main reason why my parents (who both worked in the NHS all their lives).

I remember tabloids blaming immigration in the run up to the 2016 referendum for many of UK woes. This will have swayed some to vote leave, but I am not convinced that it was all 17.4 million

The confusing thing is ardent leavers like Johnson and Sunak have systematically increased migration to the UK when they have been Prime Ministers.