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Brexit

Can someone give me one benefit of Brexit.

1000 replies

Tulipsroses · 05/12/2023 18:54

It's going to be 4 years since we withdrew our membership in European Union. Apart from the passport colour (some people might prefer) can anyone name one positive change which happened since then.

OP posts:
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66
HannibalHeyes · 13/12/2023 20:12

GlobeTrotter2000 · 13/12/2023 19:59

@TooBigForMyBoots

We were still in the EU at that stage.

Remain predictions were what was meant to happen just by voting to leave before the UK actually left the EU.

As the poster Eastern points outs Labour have said they will not campaign to rejoin the EU or even the SM even though they were previously a remain party.

If everyone has changed their mind and wants to rejoin, as claimed by remain supporters, why has Labour done that? I think it’s because Labour have not forgotten what happened in the 2019 GE when they tried to ignore the referendum result.

Why are the remain supporter not emailing Starmer to advise if he does not push for rejoining the EU they won’t vote for him?

This has been commented on repeatedly upthread.

I suggest you go back an reread...

EasternStandard · 13/12/2023 20:25

GlobeTrotter2000 · 13/12/2023 19:59

@TooBigForMyBoots

We were still in the EU at that stage.

Remain predictions were what was meant to happen just by voting to leave before the UK actually left the EU.

As the poster Eastern points outs Labour have said they will not campaign to rejoin the EU or even the SM even though they were previously a remain party.

If everyone has changed their mind and wants to rejoin, as claimed by remain supporters, why has Labour done that? I think it’s because Labour have not forgotten what happened in the 2019 GE when they tried to ignore the referendum result.

Why are the remain supporter not emailing Starmer to advise if he does not push for rejoining the EU they won’t vote for him?

I think it’s been said it’s the media making Starmer hold off

Imo it’s more likely pressure isn’t there as it is for other issues

GarlicMaybeNot · 13/12/2023 20:51

Haven't read the thread - I've been avoiding it, but the last few pages have caught my interest so I probably will. Anyway:

I happened on a Brexit benefit yesterday - the nostalgic pleasures of international despatch between European countries! Oh, my Amazon return to a handling centre in Madrid, with five separate forms to be attached to different parts of the package, took me right back to my pre-EU gap year 😍 So much more exciting than simply sticking on a label and shoving it in the post like an in-country parcel 😂

Amazon supplied pre-filled forms for me to print & sign. It must be so much fun for small businesses to figure all that stuff out, with duties & fees, before sending anything to any country outside the UK. (International Trade at uni was not, fun, btw. I don't blame anyone who's given up exporting since Brexit.)

jgw1 · 13/12/2023 21:39

GarlicMaybeNot · 13/12/2023 20:51

Haven't read the thread - I've been avoiding it, but the last few pages have caught my interest so I probably will. Anyway:

I happened on a Brexit benefit yesterday - the nostalgic pleasures of international despatch between European countries! Oh, my Amazon return to a handling centre in Madrid, with five separate forms to be attached to different parts of the package, took me right back to my pre-EU gap year 😍 So much more exciting than simply sticking on a label and shoving it in the post like an in-country parcel 😂

Amazon supplied pre-filled forms for me to print & sign. It must be so much fun for small businesses to figure all that stuff out, with duties & fees, before sending anything to any country outside the UK. (International Trade at uni was not, fun, btw. I don't blame anyone who's given up exporting since Brexit.)

Hang on, we were told earlier that duty and the consequent duty free was a benefit of Brexit.

GarlicMaybeNot · 13/12/2023 21:55

jgw1 · 13/12/2023 21:39

Hang on, we were told earlier that duty and the consequent duty free was a benefit of Brexit.

😂 Yeah, bringing 200 cheap fags back from Abroad is way better than bringing a whole bag of cartons costing half what they do in the UK! When I lived near the south coast I used to buy all my wine & cigarettes on the continent - the savings covered petrol, hotel and a lovely dinner. Still got duty-free perfume, so that was a bonus as needed.

Brexit benefit: discourages drinking & smoking due to cost 😏

GlobeTrotter2000 · 13/12/2023 22:46

@Kendodd Aren't UK households actually now £8,800 poorer than our EU neighbours?

The link you provided talks about what has happened since the financial crisis. No mention of Brexit.

GlobeTrotter2000 · 13/12/2023 22:57

@HannibalHeyes "Rishi Sunak’s Brexit deal is up and running.
It’s ‘cataclysmic’ for UK food exports"

Everything that Sunak does seems to be a disaster both as a PM and when chancellor. 37 Billion for the track and trace that nobody was obliged to use.

Wonder if he will step down before the next GE and let Cameron step in?

HappiestSleeping · 13/12/2023 23:00

GlobeTrotter2000 · 13/12/2023 22:57

@HannibalHeyes "Rishi Sunak’s Brexit deal is up and running.
It’s ‘cataclysmic’ for UK food exports"

Everything that Sunak does seems to be a disaster both as a PM and when chancellor. 37 Billion for the track and trace that nobody was obliged to use.

Wonder if he will step down before the next GE and let Cameron step in?

Either way would lose it for them.

Edited to add "hopefully"

GlobeTrotter2000 · 13/12/2023 23:14

@HappiestSleeping Either way would lose it for them.

I think people will vote Labour, not because they are sure things will improve, but as a way of getting rid of Conservatives. Negative tactical voting like in 1997.

A low turnout and a Labour win would be my guess for the next GE.

TooBigForMyBoots · 13/12/2023 23:56

GlobeTrotter2000 · 13/12/2023 19:59

@TooBigForMyBoots

We were still in the EU at that stage.

Remain predictions were what was meant to happen just by voting to leave before the UK actually left the EU.

As the poster Eastern points outs Labour have said they will not campaign to rejoin the EU or even the SM even though they were previously a remain party.

If everyone has changed their mind and wants to rejoin, as claimed by remain supporters, why has Labour done that? I think it’s because Labour have not forgotten what happened in the 2019 GE when they tried to ignore the referendum result.

Why are the remain supporter not emailing Starmer to advise if he does not push for rejoining the EU they won’t vote for him?

Remain predictions were what was meant to happen just by voting to leave...? I disagree. "Remain predictions" were what would happen if we left the EU. Remain predicted the UK would be poorer for it.

It happened. We left. And we are poorer and weakened because of leaving.

Starmer cannot turn back time. He can't push for rejoin. It's not in his gift. This is not 2016 or 2019. The UK left the EU in 2020. If we rejoin, it will be because the EU decides to accept us. The decision is well and truly out of the hands of any British politician.

GlobeTrotter2000 · 14/12/2023 09:23

@TooBigForMyBoots Remain predictions were what was meant to happen just by voting to leave...? I disagree. "Remain predictions" were what would happen if we left the EU. Remain predicted the UK would be poorer for it.

The link provided was dated 23 June 2021. UK left the EU on 31 Jan 2020 and the transition period ended 31 Dec 2020.

June 23, 2021: five years after the Brexit referendum, how wrong Project Fear was | Churchmouse Campanologist (wordpress.com)

On Wednesday, June 23, 2021 — the five year anniversary of the Brexit referendum — The Spectator had a good article about how wrong Project Fear’s predictions were.

Excerpts from ‘Five of the worst Remain predictions five years on’ follow (emphases mine).

The sources for these are then-Chancellor George Osborne, the banks, an international accounting firm, then-Prime Minister David Cameron and the EU’s Donald Tusk.

George Osborne

George Osborne and the Treasury peddled three Project Fear disasters: impoverished households, huge job losses and what The Spectator calls a ‘punishment budget’.

On households, using Treasury figures, he predicted that each household in Britain would be poorer by £4,300 in 2030.

Even the Remainer BBC had a problem with that. Their fact check said that the figure was:

questionable and probably not particularly helpful.

In reality, the opposite has happened:

records from the Office for National Statistics (ONS) show in the five years since that real disposable income per head has risen from £5,177 in the second quarter of 2016 to £5,354 at the end of 2020.

On the jobs front, Treasury figures predicted 500,000 job losses across Britain.

In reality, early in 2020, before coronavirus hit, the employment rate was at a record high:

a million jobs were added by the time Covid hit, with the employment rate for those aged between 16 to 64 rising from 74.5 per cent in June 2016 to 76.6 per cent in January 2020 – the highest level since 1971.

Before the 2016 referendum, Osborne told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme that the UK would leave the EU with no economic plan, therefore, a punishment budget of higher taxes and public spending cuts would have to be implemented.

In reality, after Cameron resigned at 9:30 a.m. on June 24, 2016, Osborne left his post as Chancellor. Philip Hammond, his successor, said that no such budget would be implemented.

As a result:

Hammond’s first budget was described as a ‘low-key package’ that increased national insurance contributions for the self-employed and enjoyed stronger-than-expected tax receipts since the EU referendum. Britain even finished the year as one of the fastest growing economies in the G7.

The banks

Goldman Sachs predicted a British recession by early 2017.

Nomura and Credit Suisse predicted falls in GDP: 1.3% and 1%, respectively.

JP Morgan predicted that Scotland would leave the Union and create their own currency.

In reality, Scotland is still yearning to break free with no plan on how to do it:

with the British economy growing up until the first quarter of 2020 when Covid struck with 1.7 per cent annual GDP growth in both 2016 and 2017 followed by 1.3 per cent in 2018 and 1.4 per cent in 2019.

Big accounting firm

PricewaterhouseCoopers predicted a loss of up to 100,000 financial services jobs.
EY (Ernst & Young) came closer to the true figure:

Rivals EY estimated last month that PWC’s figure had overestimated such losses by a factor of nine, with just 7,600 going overseas as of March 2021.

Donald Tusk and David Cameron

The EU’s Donald Tusk predicted the loss of:

Western political civilization in its entirety.

David Cameron predicted a Third World War.

In reality:

it appears that the greater threat to the EU is in fact its own leaders, given the ongoing debacle of the vaccine rollout in the face of public dismay. Western political civilisation meanwhile has somehow remained intact.

Ordinary citizens — the 52% who voted to Leave — can discern the situation on the ground better than the experts — our notional betters — can.

June 23, 2021: five years after the Brexit referendum, how wrong Project Fear was

On Wednesday, June 23, 2021 — the five year anniversary of the Brexit referendum — The Spectator had a good article about how wrong Project Fear’s predictions were. Excerpts from …

https://churchmousec.wordpress.com/2021/06/23/june-23-2021-five-years-after-the-brexit-referendum-how-wrong-project-fear-was/

GlobeTrotter2000 · 14/12/2023 09:38

@TooBigForMyBoots Starmer cannot turn back time. He can't push for rejoin.

Any Party can campaign to rejoin, but there are many hurdles in the way such as:

Another referendum will have to be authorised by Parliament. Leave supporters will argue that EU will not offer the same terms as before, so what is the point of a rejoin?

Even if a referendum approved, will it produce a rejoin result?

Even if a rejoin result is acheived in a referendum it does not oblige the EU to accept.

GlobeTrotter2000 · 14/12/2023 10:26

@TooBigForMyBoots Remain predictions" were what would happen if we left the EU

UK left the EU 31 Jan 2020 with a transition period to 31 Dec 2020.

UK Treasury forecast the UK would experience; an immediate one year recession, large drop in house and share proces if the vote in June 2016 was to leave. It did not happen.

The vote to leavw was 23 June 2016, but as per Article 50 UK had to trigger Article 50 and then had a two year perio to make a deal or leave without a deal. So, even if Article 50 had been triggered the day fater on 24 June 2016, it would be 24 June 2018 before UK left.

Osborne said there would be an emergency budget to reduce the UK defict that would arise from a vote to leave. Did not happen.

Hammond, who took over from Osborne as chancellor, said no such budget was necessary. Likewise his budget in March 2017 increased receipts and reduced the defict.

I provided a link that provided actual figures in an earlier post, but MN have hidden it whilst they review.

GlobeTrotter2000 · 14/12/2023 10:58

@TooBigForMyBoots I disagree. "Remain predictions" were what would happen if we left the EU.

The link to the treasury resport is

HM Treasury analysis: the immediate economic impacy of leaving the EU (publishing.service.gov.uk)

Key wording in the Foreword is:

This paper focuses on the immediate economic impact of a vote to leave and the two years that follow.

The two years that follow is the transition period up to when the UK would actually leave the EU.

It goes on to say:

The analysis in this document comes to a clear central conclusion: a vote to leave would represent an immediate and profound shock to our economy. That shock would push our economy into a recession and lead to an increase in unemployment of around 500,000, GDP would be 3.6% smaller, average real wages would be lower, inflation higher, sterling weaker, house prices would be hit and public borrowing would rise compared with a vote to remain.

Again, reference is made to a vote to leave and immediate effects as opposed to actually leaving.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/524967/hm_treasury_analysis_the_immediate_economic_impact_of_leaving_the_eu_web.pdf

TooBigForMyBoots · 14/12/2023 15:02

Thay both Remain and Leave campaigners in the Tory party lied through their teeth is no surprise to me.

The next vote they should be facing should be from a jury. Not a GE.

Kendodd · 14/12/2023 16:46

GlobeTrotter2000 · 14/12/2023 10:58

@TooBigForMyBoots I disagree. "Remain predictions" were what would happen if we left the EU.

The link to the treasury resport is

HM Treasury analysis: the immediate economic impacy of leaving the EU (publishing.service.gov.uk)

Key wording in the Foreword is:

This paper focuses on the immediate economic impact of a vote to leave and the two years that follow.

The two years that follow is the transition period up to when the UK would actually leave the EU.

It goes on to say:

The analysis in this document comes to a clear central conclusion: a vote to leave would represent an immediate and profound shock to our economy. That shock would push our economy into a recession and lead to an increase in unemployment of around 500,000, GDP would be 3.6% smaller, average real wages would be lower, inflation higher, sterling weaker, house prices would be hit and public borrowing would rise compared with a vote to remain.

Again, reference is made to a vote to leave and immediate effects as opposed to actually leaving.

Didn't the Bank of England have to pump billions into propping up the pound immediately after the vote to prevent this?

Pound plunges after Leave vote - BBC News

Traders from BGC, a global brokerage company in London’s Canary Wharf financial centre, react as European stock markets open on 24 June 2016

Pound plunges after Leave vote

The London stock market dives and the pound hits its lowest level since 1985 in the wake of the UK's vote to leave the EU.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36611512

Kendodd · 14/12/2023 16:49

So, households are £8,800 poorer than our EU neigbours and there's now loads of shit in the sea. I don't think Brexit is going well, well, unless you like swimming in shit.

Kendodd · 14/12/2023 16:51

Actually, one thing I'm really happy about, Brexit has backfired on the racists who voted Leave becuase immigration is massivly up. 😃

LivingDeadGirlUK · 14/12/2023 17:01

Kendodd · 14/12/2023 16:51

Actually, one thing I'm really happy about, Brexit has backfired on the racists who voted Leave becuase immigration is massivly up. 😃

Yes and immigration of Brown People, rather than White People too.

jgw1 · 14/12/2023 17:53

Big numbers are always good right?

So I learnt a little while ago that core inflation in the Uk is nearly twice that in the US and EU, so that is surely a Brexit benefit?

GlobeTrotter2000 · 15/12/2023 16:02

@Kendodd Didn't the Bank of England have to pump billions into propping up the pound immediately after the vote to prevent this?

As per Xe.com, the £ to Euro is the same today as it was as 15 December 2013, about 1.17.

GlobeTrotter2000 · 15/12/2023 16:09

@jgw1 So I learnt a little while ago that core inflation in the Uk is nearly twice that in the US and EU, so that is surely a Brexit benefit?

For October 2023, inflation figures are:

US 3.1
Germany 3.2
France 4.5
UK 4.6

GlobeTrotter2000 · 15/12/2023 16:36

@Kendodd Brexit has backfired on the racists who voted Leave becuase immigration is massivly up.

Another seven year old comment. Has it ever been proved that the 17.4 million who voted leave did so solely on a desire to see a reduction in immigration?

Anand Menon QT 22 Jun 2023 stated that the official leave campaign was to control immigration as opposed to specifically reducing the total number.

increased immigration was attributable to;

Arrivals from the Ukraine
Hong Kong
More international students.

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