Brexit mega thread part 12: David Cameron: Return of the King

[SerendipityJane]

(previous thread)

That's "king" as a suffix not a prefix. Also part of a phrase.

Would you eat one from a river that Thames Water has been routinely polluting though?

Salt water : we get them in the beaches round here

Salt Shit water...

I see that the Telegraph, quoting a YouGov Poll, is predicting a Tory wipe out at the next election. They bleat that without Reform, Labour would not get a landslide.

Well, a week being a long time in politics, a year is an eternity, so we can take some of it with a pinch of salt.

Sunak hasn't got the scope Cameron had when faced with the UKIP threat, to call a Referendum on whether we should leave the EU. Pity that.

James O'Brian on LBC has just been asking questions about who commissioned that survey . Apparently it was commissioned by the "Conservative Coalition Association" or something like that

He did a Google search on the organisation and it came back with a single mention: from the Telegraph, the article itself

So who are these shadowy figures who want the Conservative Party to lurch even further to the Right?

I do just wonder how many people think Immigration is the biggest issue facing them - the cost of living crisis and difficulties accessing the NHS are the two issues I would put at the top of most people's lists.

I see that the Telegraph, quoting a YouGov Poll, is predicting a Tory wipe out at the next election. They bleat that without Reform, Labour would not get a landslide.

The irony that the Tories are as innumerate as they want us to be is crushing.

As things stand, even if every single "don't know" in the UK voted Tory, they would still lose. And they appear to be locked into some sort of BSDM deal with Reform, chasing a fraction of the votes they really need from Labour. This iust just reading the data, rather than reimagining it.

Agree Peregrina. Cost of living still top for most people. Immigration is still a big issue though, for lots of people.

For all that we think the cost of living crisis affects everyone, if someone owns their home and they are otherwise comfortably off with no significant debts to anyone, I wonder how affected someone in that situation really is?

If people are in that situation I do get the sense that they have more capacity to identify with other big issues, Ukraine, the Houthi/Yemen situation, Israel, immigration, state of public services, whatever, I do think it's in that mix.

Just listen around the water cooler. Always a revelation.

Right now the cold weather weather is tops. That leads onto energy prices which will always bring in cost of living. And then a sort of top 10 up and down movers.

Generally the only time immigration is mentioned is when someone hopes they can fix potholes.

The problem with starting culture wars, is you need to understand the culture.

Clearly I don't know what sector you work in but "around the water cooler" implies convo in a work place. Taking what people are comfortable saying to colleagues, in their place of work, as in any sense representative of their political priorities is foolish IMO.

What views they might express away from work, or prioritise for themselves when they are in the privacy of a polling booth, I think matter rather more.

Immigration is only an issue because the Tories want it to be, and so their client media keeps publishing their "shock" headlines to keep the ignorant thinking it's important.

The problem with Brexiteers complaining about immigration is the fact that the many hundreds of thousands more "swarms" of immigrants is directly attributable to their precious Brexit. The cognitive dissonance is off the scale.

If by this you meant directly attributable to decisions the UK government took after Brexit, then you're correct. If you actually meant attributable to Brexit then you're wrong. Different UK govt decisions would have resulted in different outcomes.

So if the removal of free movement curtailed UK plc from getting the staff it needs, and the govt choosing to look further afield to solve the problem is also not acceptable, then where else is left? Despite the whims of right wing media, we do not have swathes of people to fill the positions needed already here. Squaring circles is very difficult if you exclude all the solutions.

Clearly I don't know what sector you work in but "around the water cooler" implies convo in a work place. Taking what people are comfortable saying to colleagues, in their place of work, as in any sense representative of their political priorities is foolish IMO.

Us techie nerds get our heads up a lot of skirts, so to speak. We're also quite good at talking metaphorically. You have to be given some of the Nobel laureates we deal with.

Well, leaving the Dublin Convention was an inevitable consequence of Brexit...

@Jason118 Despite the whims of right wing media, we do not have swathes of people to fill the positions needed already here.

The latest UK figures I can find are:

Jobs available Approx. 950K
Persons unemployed Approx. 1.5 Million

So, on paper, there are sufficient persons available.

Apparently the big three shortages are:

Nurses
Pharmacists
Engineers

Nurses have been poorly paid since I can remember. Age the population ages, I would have though it would be beneficial to encourage nurses and care workers.

Pharmacists is a little surprisig as data suggests experienced persons can earn around 60K (not that would be much good in London)

Engineers. No surprises here. Mrs Thatcher's 1980's de-industrialisation of the UK discouraged many from pursuing careers in engineering.

Investment in training would be my suggestion.

Jason, we do. We have a working age population of circa 37m and a current unemployment rate of 4.2%. that's around 1.5m available workers, to say nothing of those who are "under" employed of whom there are millions more.

The solution is twofold. 1) get the sectors needing more labour to pay their workers at a rate that makes working in them incredibly attractive. 2) 'Incentivise' work by reforming the system so that living without earnings from employment, if someone is of working age, is functionally impossible. The only other optiobs would be people planning tolive of their savings/investment income - and even the 2nd of those should be a prime target.

Those two things won't happen, we don't have the stomach for them unfortuntely but don't tell me solutions don't exist, they do.

.

How 'available' are the 1.5 million, and where are they? I think you'll find that there aren't 1.5 million people available to do the work that currently needs doing.

@LouiseCollins28 so you suggest starving people into work, regardless of their ability, your item 2?

Where they have availability and ability and choose not to work after a short period on JSA yes, 2) should apply. I think talking about "starving" people is a little dramatic but I wonder why should everyone else work if some won't. Do you think people work because they enjoy it? I suspect the vast majority do it to pay their bills. If people can work, they should.

@LouiseCollins28

Earnings being attractive to encourage people to work is a valid point. However, it is not a substitute for skills shortage.

To work as a nurse Doctor requires people to be trained and qualified.

Of the 1.5 million unemployed how many were made redundant during COVID and are unable to find anoer job that matches their experience and skills.

So @LouiseCollins28 how many of the 1.5 million do you think are able and available, but make the choice not to work?

55 year olds in one part of the country
cannot take on NMW caring jobs
in another part of the country
no matter how healthy or willing they are

millions of families are priced out of moving house

Obviously all true and I agree on Drs nurses etc. As a counter argument though, how many of those unemployed who are unable to find a job that "matches their experience/skills" are unable to find ANY job? Really, a huge proportion these million a half people can't do anything?! I don't believe that.