Brexit mega thread part 12: David Cameron: Return of the King

[SerendipityJane]

(previous thread)

That's "king" as a suffix not a prefix. Also part of a phrase.

@pointythings The DUP wholeheartedly supported Brexit and are now whining about the inevitable and predictable consequences. Losers.

I think they wanted a border between NI and ROI to reduce the chances of reunification, but a border would have also violated the GFA.

Brexit was never intended to sever all ties with the EU.

The leaflet sent to all UK households said a vote to leave would mean UK would no longer be in the single market.

So which is it?

Johnson and co certainly took their 2019 mandate to mean sever all ties. The Remainers were either kicked out of the party or like Liz Truss did a rapid about turn.

Now that the extreme right are in charge of the Party, and have got their Brexit they are coming for the ECHR.

@Peregrina Johnson and co certainly took their 2019 mandate to mean sever all ties

It is not necessary to be within the EU to trade with the EU. I remember that the EU has trade deals with Approx 70 other countries outside the EU.

Regards remainers being moved on, that was because they did not want Brexit to happen at all.

The result of the 2019 GE demonstrated it was the electorates' wish for the result of the 2016 referendum to be honoured. Jo Swinson, leader of the LibDems, lost her seat and Labour had their worst results in 85 yrears.

The usual patronising claptrap from Globetrotter2000 I see.

The result of the 2019 GE demonstrated it was the electorates' wish for the result of the 2016 referendum to be honoured. Jo Swinson, leader of the LibDems, lost her seat and Labour had their worst results in 85 yrears.

So the mandate has been discharged, and Brexiters have got their wish. This of course is why the Tories are miles ahead in the Polls. Oh wait, they aren't. Why could that be?

The result of the 2019 GE demonstrated it was the electorates' wish for the result of the 2016 referendum to be honoured. Jo Swinson, leader of the LibDems, lost her seat and Labour had their worst results in 85 yrears.

Actually, the majority of votes cast were for parties offering either a second referendum, or remain. So your point is actually false.

(A Brexiteer spreading lies? Whatever next!)

Brexit was never intended to sever all ties with the EU.

However, Brexit has left us doing more trade with the EU proportionally - but on worse terms. Hardly a win for anyone except the EU...

@HannibalHeyes Actually, the majority of votescast were for parties offering either a second referendum, or remain. So your point is actually false.

That assumes those who wanted a second referendum were in favour of remain.

Also, the FPTP voting system (as supported by the UK electorate for decades) is based on seats and not %. As you have stated elsewhwere, people don't vote for LibDems (who want to scrap FPTP) as they think they wil lnever abe able to form a Government. So, FPTP will be in place forever.

@Peregrina This of course is why the Tories are miles ahead in the Polls. Oh wait, they aren't. Why could that be?

Why are Labour excluding rejoin the EU from their campaign?

Why are Labour excluding rejoin the EU from their campaign?

Why don't you phone their HQ and ask them? I imagine that they know the right wing press will slaughter them if they did. They would make it a one issue election. Labour would be much better to concentrate on the cost of living crisis and the way the Tories have run down the NHS, to get themselves elected first.

Because Rish! Sunak has told us the nations priorities. And they are getting 200 people to Rwanda in the most expensive way possible is his secret task for the next but one series of Taskmaster.

Still trying to take back control of our borders.......

Why on earth would anyone voting Leave want a second referendum?!

@beguilingeyes Why on earth would anyone voting Leave want a second referendum?!

To prove the result of the 2016 referendum was what people wanted.

I would say the 2019 GE was a second referendum on EU membership. The opportunity to cancel Brexit was presented by the LibDems, but not taken.

So, to rejoin the EU now requires several hurdles to be cleared:

Vote in a Party that wants to rejoin the EU.

Have a referendum. If the result was close like in 2016, you are back to the same arguments that have gone on since 2016.

Apply under Article 49 to rejoin the EU.

An application to join the EU has to be agreed by all existing members.

https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/james-obrien-jacob-rees-mogg-second-referendum/

Didn't want it after they won though did he?
I don't think your average Brexiter would've wanted a recount in case the result reversed. It wasn't exactly conclusive, even though the Tories behaved like the result was 99/1 rather than 52/48.

I would say the 2019 GE was a second referendum on EU membership.

In that case it was a failure, because 57% of votes went to parties offering a second referendum.

I suspect even some of the less-addled Brexit voters wanted another referendum once they knew what the deal was actually going to look like.

Also, the FPTP voting system (as supported by the UK electorate for decades) is based on seats and not %.

And you think that's a fair system?

@SerendipityJane

Nigel Farage suggested a second referendum in 2018, but it was rejected by MP's

@HannibalHeyes

Also, the FPTP voting system (as supported by the UK electorate for decades) is based on seats and not %.

And you think that's a fair system?

For as long as people vote for Conservative and Labour, the FPTP system will remain in place.

I remember Labour won 418 seats ((64%) with 43% of the vote in 1997.

So, if you want the FPTP system t obe scrapped and the UK to rejoin the EU, vote for LibDems. However, I remember you saying peopel won't vote that way because they think LibDems never have a chance of winning a GE.

"wasn't exactly conclusive" haha and still it goes on! 7.5 years and still you've not accepted an outcome just coz you didn't like it.

Also on the FPTP vs PR point that other posters are making. If you want to change the voting system complain loudly and offer the change when you win under the current one, complaining about it after you've lost under the existing system is just silly.

I suspect a change is quite likely in the near future if the government changes this year.

"wasn't exactly conclusive" haha and still it goes on! 7.5 years and still you've not accepted an outcome just coz you didn't like it.

There is no shame in not accepting an outcome and legitimately campaigning to change it. Well, not in JaneLand.

Despite David Davies being a twat of the highest order, he was 100% spot on (and I suspect quoting) when he said:

A democracy that cannot change it's mind has ceased to be a democracy.

A democracy that cannot change it's mind has ceased to be a democracy.

Indeed so. We accept this for Parliaments and have to have an election at least every five years, and three years for Local Government, but with this particular Referendum, the result has to be cast in stone for all time. Eventually things will change, but it's anyone's guess how soon. Probably another 10 years at least.

7.5 years and still you've not accepted an outcome just coz you didn't like it.

The people who didn't like the first Referendum result in 1975 didn't accept the outcome either, and 'banged on and on' until they finally got their referendum in 2016.

They are still not satisfied either.

I think the results of the referendum would have been more readily accepted if a marginal victory hadn’t been treated as if it was an outright mandate for a hard Brexit.

Which is why if you are going to have a referendum (and I don't think they are a very good idea anyway) then you do things like:

• have a clear question
• have a clear explanation of where each outcome goes
• require a supermajority

The fact the 2016 referendum had none of that really begs the question whether it actually deserves to be a called referendum at all.

However, we are where we are. And the fact the collapse of the Tory party was predicted along with all the other things that have come true can only give us hope.