Genuine question - what does anyone like about Brexit?

[Pipsquiggle]

I have always been a committed remainer - I work in an industry that depends on seamless logisitics, particularly entering / leaving the UK. Brexit is a shit show for my sector.

Just had to pay £96.80 to UPS to release a package that I'd paid express delivery for, that should've arrived 2 days ago - I'm pissed off. The German firm has already agreed to reimburse me but it's all such a ball ache.

So I have a very bleak outlook when it comes to Brexit.

Genuinely, I would like to hear of good news stories around Brexit.
How has it made your life better?
If your pay has increased - how much by and which industry are you in?
If there has been a legal upside for you - which law and how has it helped?

I am genuinely hoping to 'reframe' my thoughts / feelings on Brexit and was hoping this board could help me

Sweet FA. It’s an unmitigated disaster.

@GlobeTrotter2000 you are talking bullshit about retiring anywhere without recourse to public funds (or healthcare) - in Denmark you certainly couldn't - 90 days rule applies regardless of your age and income if you don't fit the criteria for residency- and most pensioners would not. Theres a reason many people have had to come back from Spain too . What would be more honest to say is 'it is possible' if you fit the criteria and in some cases need to have a fair old whack in the bank plus private health ( and that's not always easy to get if you have any known conditions) - again you are pumping out absolutely false information based on the fact it's not a problem 'for you'

I can confirm what Crikeyalmighty says.

18 years ago DD and a friend just wanted to try their luck in another EU country. Off they went, registered for residence in the country, got the equivalent of Nat Insurance numbers, and found jobs. For my DD the job paid twice what her UK job had done. Quite a few of the young people in her year, just from an ordinary comprehensive, did this when they were in their early 20s.. I know at least one eventually settled permanently in Germany.

But now GlobeTrotter2000 tells us post Brexit it's all so easy. You just need to get a visa, which rules out most of DD's friends and probably would have ruled her out. You can't now stay indefinitely with work, you might be able to stay in Spain for 180 days but that hasn't happened yet. And Globetrotter2002's answer is who wants to be abroad for so long anyway.

The thread was entitled 'What does anyone like about Brexit'. Not 'What damage limitation measures have been put in now that we have left the EU'?

@Crikeyalmighty working in EU is not as difficult

OP questions were:

1. How has it made your life better?
2. If your pay has increased - how much by and which industry are you in?
3. If there has been a legal upside for you - which law and how has it helped?

My replies were:

1. Yes
2. Yes. I have been paid in either Euro or US$ since 2017
3. Yes. The 90/180 Schengen rule and COVID combined gave birth to hybid working from home.

@Peregrina The thread was entitled 'What does anyone like about Brexit'. Not 'What damage limitation measures have been put in now that we have left the EU'

That was the title of the thread, but not the questions OP asked.

You just need to get a visa, which rules out most of DD's friends and probably would have ruled her out

If EU employers can't be bothered to obtain the necessary permits, they never wanted your DD or her friends to begin with.

My DD has worked in Germany since 2019 and has residence permit.

@GlobeTrotter2000 your daughter has worked there from pre withdrawal period- this gave her rights and that is not the same as asking 'now'

It is not the fact that EU employers 'don't want' xyz to work for them, it is that unless they cannot find people from within EU and prove it then they will always seek people from within the EU- it is less hassle, less cost and unless you have incredibly specialist skills or it's an internal company transfer then usually unnecessary. Certain countries too are 'prioritised' as they have reciprocal arrangements and the UK chose not to have them. That's why it's easier for say an American or Canadian in Denmark than it isUK .

If EU employers can't be bothered to obtain the necessary permits, they never wanted your DD or her friends to begin with.

You always dodge the point. No, faced with a couple of potential employees, one of whom they can set on immediately and one who needs to wait for a visa, then most employers will go for the one who can start now, not one which might not get the visa. Hence a language school in E Europe faced with a sudden vacancy and wanting someone with a TEFL qualification is going to go for the Irish citizen instead of the British or Canadian. This is fact, this has happened. So the enterprising youngster with a bit of get up and go can't do this so easily. Which you just will not admit. Yes they possibly could go to Bulgaria as you are planning to do. As we have already seen from a PP they can't just go off to Denmark.

Yes, your DD has a residence permit. But she started in 2019 when the UK was still in the EU. I can't speak for all EU countries, because guess what, they are sovereign nations, so they can make their own residence rules. Many of them require their citizens to have residence permits. Both of my children have had spells in EU countries and every time they have had a residence permit. Both of mine could almost certainly have stayed abroad having gone to EU countries in the same year as your DD. Personal circumstances brought them back, and now they would not find it so easy should they wish to do so.

The UK could have done this; the UK didn't bother. It was easiest to blame the EU for Westminster's failings.

Something of a cross post there with Crikeyalmighty

@Crikeyalmighty @Peregrina it is that unless they cannot find people from within EU and prove it then they will always seek people from within the EU

The gas project I worked on in The Netherlands employed both Russian and Ukrainian trades people to work on the construction site. Rebar benders, carpenters and welders. Such persons could be found in The Netherlands, but at much higher cost.

@GlobeTrotter2000 I am suprised they got away with that- but maybe construction is counted as a 'shortage occupation' so it's easier to get the visas and the significant price differential makes it worth their while going to the faff of doing it. It really isn't the case across all sectors though -

GlobeTrotter2000

Your arguments are really getting so tedious. So a Dutch employer bent the rules and hired someone cheaper.

I actually quoted a real example of a language school being able to employ someone immediately because they didn't need a visa, and could jump on a plane and be in front of a class two days later. This particular language school does not now take on UK citizens unless they are a) already resident in the country, or b) have dual nationality with an EU country.

For many people Brexit has made life more difficult, not all, I will grant. There are stuck in the muds who regard going to a town ten miles away as an expedition!

These supposedly easiest deals in history do not yet seem to have materialised.

More having to implement rules the UK had no say in

Well, we don't have to implement them. What with trade being a nice to have and all that

https://aiopsgroup.com/accessibility-eaa/

@Crikeyalmighty I am suprised they got away with that- but maybe construction is counted as a 'shortage occupation'

It was mostly a cost driven decision. The Project was funded by the Dutch Government, so no problem to issue Visas. However, the cost to correct the poor quality work at a later date probably wiped out the savings. 100% failure rate on pipe welds!

@Peregrina These supposedly easiest deals in history do not yet seem to have materialised.

Liam Fox was referring to a deal with the EU as opposed to the rest of the World as per the link:

Liam Fox: EU trade deal after Brexit should be 'easiest in history' to get | Liam Fox | The Guardian

Liam Fox was referring to a deal with the EU as opposed to the rest of the World as per the link:

I don't see where I specified which countries we were going to have the easiest trade deals with. However, back to an earlier question from me - where are they?

Yes we know, ukraine, covid, Red sea, Israel, couldn't negotiate until A50 etc. etc. But they are not here and they should be Because the Brexiters told us So.

@GlobeTrotter2000 yep, if it's government etc then to be honest they will do this kind of thing-,just as uk did - the big problems are anything that's not governmental and not counted as shortage industry and self employment too- you can't just say find a nice office related job or hotel receptionist or shipping or management consultant role etc and make plans to move your family - you have to have work visas and as I said before they have to have proof they cannot recruit within EU and their are cost implications - people who used to do travel industry jobs are having the same issues- large scale governmental infrastructure projects are a totally different kettle of fish. For people with families you need to be able to plan well in advance for schools, housing etc and this is really hard to do if visas take months- companies want people in 2 weeks, not 4 months when they've been sitting on whether they will get a visa . I'm not saying what you said isn't true- but it's very specific and individual depending on sectors and type of job. I do realise for some people though none of this matters- however for everyone else who it does matter for it's a right royal pain in the arse - even for short term contracts etc

If you go back to the Liam Fox link - it makes you realise how utterly stupid the Brexiters were. He goes on about how we already have regulatory alignment, but the Brexiters big argument was that they didn't want this, they wanted to rip up the 'EU imposed' rule book. The first question a negotiator would ask was 'What guarantee do we have that you will maintain our standards?'

I put EU imposed in quotes because I never did get an answer from Brexiters as to whether they wanted to rip up EU rules which had been promoted by the UK.

Crikeyalmighty
if you wonder why olive oil as an example is now £7 a bottle - Brexit is indeed the answer

Or you could find some answers here:

EU olive oil production is forecast to have fallen to its lowest level for at least a decade in 2022-23...
Manolis Yiannoulis, the head of the Greek interprofessional olive oil association, said consumers were experiencing price increases of “more than 100%"

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/sep/28/europes-local-olive-oil-supply-runs-almost-dry-after-summer-of-extreme-weather

One-litre bottles of extra-virgin olive oil are selling for as much as 14.5 euros ($15.77) in some [Spanish] supermarkets, propelling olive oil into the category of products retailers fit with security tags, alongside spirits, cosmetics and appliances.

https://www.reuters.com/business/retail-consumer/spanish-supermarkets-lock-up-olive-oil-shoplifting-surges-2023-11-20/

@Peregrina But they are not here and they should be Because the Brexiters told us.

Since the UK was able to discuss trade deals, 1 Jan 2021, they have secured 3 in addition to the rolled over deals (68 in total I remember). This is well short of Farage's statement on the QT episode 9 May 2019 that there were two dozen countries queued up for a deal with the UK, but also went on to say that Liam Fox was a let down. So, why the difference between 3 and 24?

Possible reasons could be:

Your comment "Yes we know, ukraine, covid, Red sea, Israel, couldn't negotiate until A50 etc.,". I think most governments would give priority to COVID and cost of living issued over trade deals. Trade deals help in the long term, but if you don't survive the short term, long term outcomes are little, if any, help or;

There were not 24 countries queued up, or:

Trade deals can take several years to complete. So, the 24 that Farage mentioned may appear later, or:

Jacob Rees-Mogg's estimate that it could be 50 years before the UK realizes the full benefit of leaving the EU was correct, or:

UK is doing okay with deals they already have.

Since the vote to leave in 2016, no EU member that was below the UK in terms of size of economy has passed the UK.

UK was No, 5 in the World, but is now 6th as India has moved up. Germany is 4th, but will become 5th when India passes them.

Adding 0.04% to GDP in the “long run”, which it defines as after 15 years of CPTPP membership is considered doing okay?

Between them, GlobeTrotter2000 and Clav have added far more to the UKs GDP than the shit "deals" the Brexiteer government have managed to "negotiate" in three years.

If you bought one loaf instead of two, you probably exceeded the net gain of the Australia deal in one fell swoop.

It's extremely indicative that Brexiteers like to make things out to be bigger than they are. I wonder what cars they drive.

@DuncinToffee and @SerendipityJane

That there was no comment on:

Since the vote to leave in 2016, no EU member that was below the UK in terms of size of economy has passed the UK.

is noted.

I can't work out the connection to cars, but I drive a Honda Jazz. Choice was made on the basis:

Honda is a reliable brand.
Honda dealership in within walking distance.

I wonder what cars remain supporters drive?

Since the vote to leave in 2016, no EU member that was below the UK in terms of size of economy has passed the UK.

Isn't Poland predicted to pass the UK by 2035?

@DuncinToffee

Of all the EU members, Poland is the largest net receiver by a massive margin. They have received almost three times the amount than the second largest net receiver, Greece. Link is

Chart: Which Countries are EU Contributors and Beneficiaries? | Statista

Investment, development and growth is easy when someone else provides the funding.

That doesn't mean they can't overtake the UK's economy

To answer the question, I bet Putin loves brexit.