Genuine question - what does anyone like about Brexit?

[Pipsquiggle]

I have always been a committed remainer - I work in an industry that depends on seamless logisitics, particularly entering / leaving the UK. Brexit is a shit show for my sector.

Just had to pay £96.80 to UPS to release a package that I'd paid express delivery for, that should've arrived 2 days ago - I'm pissed off. The German firm has already agreed to reimburse me but it's all such a ball ache.

So I have a very bleak outlook when it comes to Brexit.

Genuinely, I would like to hear of good news stories around Brexit.
How has it made your life better?
If your pay has increased - how much by and which industry are you in?
If there has been a legal upside for you - which law and how has it helped?

I am genuinely hoping to 'reframe' my thoughts / feelings on Brexit and was hoping this board could help me

Nice for you that the stamp issue is just a joke. It could mean you have to pay more to replace your passport more quickly. For me it could potentially cause real problems because I get stamped even though legally I shouldn't need to be as I live in the EU. I could be taken to the side for staying over 3 months in Schengen, though hopefully my residence card would save me.

Well, it was not the instant disaster forecast by remain

Nor have we yet seen these easiest trade deals in history. The only new ones we have are with countries mostly half way across the world, and which are to our detriment.

@Pipsquiggle

Why are you getting so hung up that the immediate economic impacts didn't materialise?

As per the remain campaign, a vote to leave would result in immediate disaster. No reference was made to trigger or Article 50 and that there was a two year, or more depending on extensions, transition period before the UK would formally leave the EU.

They didn't in 2016 but did in 2020 and also last week when food has to be checked.

In 2016, neither leave nor remain campaign could know in advance what would happen from 2020 onwards which was:

2020 - COVID grips the World
2022 - Russia invades Ukraine and World energy prices increase
2023 - Israel and Gaza conflict begins and adds to pressure on energy prices. Also red sea conflict begins. So, deliveries from Asia to Europe have to travel around Africa rather than through the Suez canal. This adds cost to all deliveries into the EU.

The economic trend deterioration is clear to see.

To those who want to "see" it. Can you provide actual historical data to prove that since 23 June 2016, people are worse off solely by the vote to leave?

As per remain, GDP was meant to have shrunk by 4% by 30 June 2018. Now, remain are saying the 4% shrinkage will occur by 2035. A movement of 17 years.

@Peregrina Lucky you, hey. Especially since the £ has declined against the Euro. But if you think Brexit is So Wonderful, why aren't you working for a British Firm and being paid in Pounds. I.e. put your money where your mouth is.

I am employed by own UK registered company. Clients specify the currency which will be paid. France and The Netherlands specified Euros. Likewise, the US energy company, who I represented for 7 months between the Dutch and French companies, specified US dollars.

I would expect you now to be letting it slip that you just happen to have an Irish passport, which you didn't bother to claim until after the Referendum.

Apparently, I could apply for an Irish passport as Grandmother on my father's side was Irish. However, process times are advised as 30 months from application. So, I won't bother.

@GlobeTrotter2000
I do think you are being pedantic.

The Remain campaign said that Brexit would be damaging when it was enacted not in 2016. Yes there was nothing substantive in 2016, mainly due to Mark Carney and the bank of England.

Why are you getting really hung up on what did / didn't happen in 2016, when everything that the remain campaign has come to pass when Brexit was enacted?

@Peregrina Nor have we yet seen these easiest trade deals in history

As per Article 50, discussion on trade deals could only begin after the UK had left the EU. This was confirmed by the Irish MEP, Mairead McGuinness, on the 4 April 2019 episode of Question Time.

498 MPs voted to trigger Article 50 on 29 March 2017. So, as per Article 50, the UK should have left on 29 March 2019 with or without a Withdrawal Agreement. This did not happen as remain MPs attempted to cancel the referendum result.

UK left the EU at 23pm on 31 Jan 2020, but with a transition period to 31 December 2020. So, UK was not fully out of the EU to begin discussions on trade deals until 1 January 2021.

By Jan 2021 COVID was in full swing and everyone was focussed the immediate emergency of lock downs, furlough and if they would still have a job when COVID abated.

When COVID began to abate, Putin invaded the Ukraine. Energy prices soared.

This results in discussion on trade deal being shelved. After all, what government would place new trade deals ahead of COVID and cost of living issues crisis?

@Pipsquiggle The Remain campaign said that Brexit would be damaging when it was enacted not in 2016

I suggest you read the teasury report. It makes the following statements:

This paper focuses on the immediate economic impact of a vote to leave and the two years that follow.
The analysis examines these impacts from 2016 Q3 to 2018 Q2

So, it is clear that the UK's demise was meant to happen whilst the UK was in the EU.

@Pipsquiggle when everything that the remain campaign has come to pass when Brexit was enacted?

So, when was the recession?
When did the UK property market collapse?
Who are the 500,000 to 800,000 people who lost their jobs?
What was the date of the emergency budget that would destroy the UK?

If your argument is that Brexit is a success because the worst case scenario didn't happen then I have a bridge to sell 🦄

Genuinely @GlobeTrotter2000 what are you trying to prove/get from this thread?

You voted remain yet you sound really pissed off at people saying that they still don't like how Brexit is going. You keep harping on about 2016 and what didn't happen.

There are bloody loads of examples of how Brexit is a cluster fuck for everyone (except lorry drivers).

Genuinely what is your beef? Please give examples of how Brexit is working for you as I asked in my original post.

My recent experience of Brexit - visiting a shop in Amsterdam who stock products from a business local to me. She said her most recent order had been stuck in Customs, and that she had to pay 300 Euros import duty on it. She is considering not stocking these products any more, and sourcing similar from within the EU, as if she in raises the price to make a profit from selling them, they will be too expensive for her customers. So local business loses a longstanding customer. But I’m sure ‘Sovereignty’ can be used to recoup their losses

As per Article 50, discussion on trade deals could only begin after the UK had left the EU. This was confirmed by the Irish MEP, Mairead McGuinness, on the 4 April 2019 episode of Question Time.

Irrelevant. We left 4 years ago but had a one year transition period. The invasion of Ukraine happened almost two years ago. Ditto the worst of Covid was now getting on for two years ago, which are the stock Brexiter excuses. So where are these easy trade deals which we have had getting on for two years to finalise?

Has GlobeTrotter2000's shift clocked off?

Maybe they got lost looking for brexit benefits

@Pipsquiggle There are bloody loads of examples of how Brexit is a cluster fuck for everyone (except lorry drivers).

UK population is Approx 67.7 million in 2023. They are Approx 270,000 HGV licences in the UK. So, excluding lorry drivers from the UK population leaves 67.43 million.

Can you provide actual historical evidence or links that prove Brexit has been bad for 67.43 million? For clarity, prospective forecasts do not count as historical evidence.

Brexit has produced the following benefits for me as an individual:

I have been paid in Euro or US$ since 2017. So, I gain from a weaker £.

Also, recent attempts to control inflation by increasing interest rates have been beneficial too.

Schengen limitations and the 90/180 rule, along with COVID, created the birth of Hybrid working. This has reduced my travel costs when working away from home.

Benefits for the UK overall are:

Unemployment has reduced from 5.5% in 2015 to 4.2% in 2023. This reduces the burden on tax payers as there are fewer people claiming benefits.

The NHS has received in real terms a 5.6% increase in funding since 2019. Increased funding for the NHS was one of the leave campaign pledges.

*Brexit has produced the following benefits for me as an individual:

I have been paid in Euro or US$ since 2017. So, I gain from a weaker £.*

My company share dividends are paid in $ and when Brexit happened, dh and I opened a bank account in the EU and moved a lot of money across, so we have also benefited from weaker £.

However, I still think Brexit is shit for the UK and rather it hadn’t happened because I’m not a selfish idiot.

@Peregrina So where are these easy trade deals which we have had getting on for two years to finalise?

To finalise anything, it is first necessary to commence. The UK was not able to enter into any discussions regards trade deals until it had fully left the UK on 31 December 2020.

The UK government and other round the world were tackling immediate problems associated with COVID. UK expenditure on COVID is estimated at £400 billion. Likewise help with the cost of living crisis caused by Russian invasion of Ukraine and further exacerbated by Israel/Palestine and the Red Sea, has so far Approx. £100 billion.

So, the UK government has been forced to tackle more pressing day to day needs as opposed to pursuing trade deals. After all, which is the most important for the average person in the street, furlough payments when they were told they could not work and help with cost of living, or if the government is making progress with trade deals?

I also have some shares paid in Euros, but this doesn't outweigh all the disadvantages of Brexit.

It makes me think of both Covid and WW2. Michelle Mone and others enriched themselves nicely with the Covid VIP lane but it didn't make the pandemic a good thing - especially for those of us who lost loved ones to it.

Some people did well during the War. Both my parents and in laws all had opportunities for good and well paid work, and weren't called up - but none of them said that the War was good - it caused too much damage and pain to so many others.

@ChocolatSouris

so we have also benefited from weaker £.
^^
However, I still think Brexit is shit for the UK and rather it hadn’t happened because I’m not a selfish idiot.

Contradictory statements. However, you could always be a Good Samaritan and donate what you’ve gained to those who claim to have lost from Brexit.

I notice your stock answer Globtrotter2000 Ukraine, Covid, now tie in Israel Gaza and the Red Sea. We really need a Brexit Bingo excuses card.

So, the UK government has been forced to tackle more pressing day to day needs as opposed to pursuing trade deals

It would be a damn good thing if the Government actually bothered to attend to pressing day to day needs rather than spend their time infighting.

After all, which is the most important for the average person in the street, furlough payments when they were told they could not work and help with cost of living, or if the government is making progress with trade deals?

By no means all got furlough payments.

As a trading nation encouraging good trade deals should be part of the mix of improving the prosperity of the nation. And remember these were going to be the easiest in history. OK they weren't because the Brexit negotiators were rubbish.

Contradictory statements. However, you could always be a Good Samaritan and donate what you’ve gained to those who claim to have lost from Brexit.

Not contradictory at all - see my war time example. My late DM was honest enough to admit that she got of lightly during the War, but it is still better to try to negotiate to avoid war.

@Peregrina I'm convinced Tufton st has 'plants' here- and the only Trade deal I'm interested in is one that has customs union/single market with the EU as that's mainly where we visit and where our business does business with- as is the case for many businesses- and individuals too I don't care about trade deals with Australia etc. US always had a kind of informal deal with EU countries on goods under a certain value and we now no longer have that either- so a bit of a killer on our mail order etc . We could always trade 'anywhere' which is often given as a reason for Brexit - it just depended if we had a market there and markets can be quite specific as to where there is a demand- cultural things in particular- rather than say handbags!

I agree CrikeyAlmighty which is why I only dip in to these threads occasionally. There is only so much gaslighting nonsense one can take

@ChocolatSouris indeed- and if you wonder why olive oil as an example is now £7 a bottle - Brexit is indeed the answer. When we lived in Denmark virtually all the British goods vanished off the shelves virtually overnight

@Crikeyalmighty

and the only Trade deal I'm interested in is one that has customs union/single market with the EUand the only Trade deal I'm interested in is one that has customs union/single market with the EU.

That’s called rejoining the EU. An event that both major parties have ruled out.

When we lived in Denmark virtually all the British goods vanished off the shelves virtually overnight.

What prevented you from remaining in Denmark?

@Crikeyalmighty Same in the Netherlands and all the M&S stores in France stopped selling fresh stuff and now it’s a couple of jars on the shelf.