Brexit mega thread : part 9 : Winter is Coming

[Chevyimpala67]

Part 10 of our long running thread.

Not sure what to say, really, other than it is worse than I feared.

Strap in, folks. It's gonna be a rough ride...

The New York Times isn't impressed with Hunt's gibberish...

and another thing

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11690425/US-general-warns-British-Army-no-longer-regarded-level-fighting-force-sources-say.html

Apparently there will be 2 debates on Brexit on the BBC this week.

1. Monday - News night, with Deborah Meaden (anyone know who else? )
2. Tuesday - R4, evening (8pm?) with JRM & Alastair Campbell.

Agree 100% with the comments on the British Army. Absolutely ridiculous how our capabilities have been allowed to degrade.

New debates on Brexit, well thats nice. What do they possibly hope to achieve I wonder?

Has zahawi been replaced?

Not yet AFAIK. Read over the weekened that this was going to take some time.

@LouiseCollins28 to discuss how it's going, I suppose. What do you think?

I've no idea, that's why I asked what they think debating a deicision taken in 2016 and enacted in 2020 will achieve now. Do we debate how the Union is going regularly? People in Scotland might well do but the rationale for doing that is obvious.

Dh said that there were rumours on Twitter that Zahawi was going to be replaced by Priti Patel

Let's hope they're just that, rumours

There again, it's almost become a sport, watching the Conservative Party self-combust

Yeah
If it weren't so dangerous it would be good sport 😔

So, Louise, you think we should never review the decision and its consequences ever again?
If we don't learn from history we are doomed to repeat it.

And any project, in any field, should be reviewed to ensure the expected outcomes are achieved and whether there are benefits to exploit or downsides to be mitigated.

Startling polling from @Unherd, on the eve of the 3rd anniversary of Brexit. In all 650 UK constituencies apart from three (all in Lincolnshire), more people now agree than disagree that Brexit was a mistake. Biggest movement in left leaning areas.

twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1619973831212544000?t=aof7FQ4kF-CE30BqtEe7cw&s=19

...and continuing... MBT Challenger 3 upgrade put back until 2030, a tracked APC replaced with a rubber wheeled one.. so less reliable.. a new armoured vehicle beset with issues and maybe scrapped AND on top of all that.. 10k troops to be cut... this decision was made pre Ukraine but has not even been put on hold.

Brexit of course makes the UK poorer, so less to spend on defence nhs education, business support for Green and EV technologies.

Currently EU is spending $43bn on new vehicle tech, similar amount on Green... USA even more... UK $0.00 and we are out of Horizon, so UK Uni's/Companies finding it harder to attract top scientists from around the world.

No wonder Putin was keen on Brexit... who cares if in 20 years we start to recover, by then everyone else will be way ahead... shame on you for supporting such a damaging outcome for the UK.

Of course we should. The deicsion on Leaving the EU arose from just a review. The difference being that the decision being reviewed occured back in 2016 was enacted 43 years prior, not 3 years prior as is currently the scenario with Brexit. So yes, aboslutely, if people want a review in another 37-40 years time those people should have one.

Didn't the government take us in then check if we still wanted to be in a couple of years later?

The country can't afford another 40 years of Brexit.

It only gets worse

I believe the expected outcomes were "no downside, just a considerable upside"

Is that how you & your family run your lives? review major decisions every 2nd generation?

Does the country do similar on health education or defence? circumstances change, people get things wrong.

Sometimes, we have to hold our hands up and change course after making a mistake... the hard BJ brexit is wrecking the country.

In the case of Brexit, rejoin is not possible in the medium term (even if we wanted too) but having a much closer relationship so we are in mutually beneficial programs and decision making processes would be advantageous.... i was about to say, defence being one but the Tories have fucked that now.

If we care about our country going down the tubes empirically, visibly, measurably, in every facet of the British way of life we need to get rid of this government and get rid of Brexit.

Who's looking at our country and thinking Brexit has been anything but bad for Britain?

Why would anyone want something this bad for our country to continue?

When I think about it as you've prompted me to do, Yes...pretty much. For example, I've lived where I've lived for 20 years, my parents have lived where they've lived for over 30 and my suriviving grandparent has just moved within the last 12m having lived in the same place for the previous 60 years. I'd say thats a review of a major life decision every generation/second generation or so.

The government (any government) review decisions all the time and quite often change course sometimes rightly, sometimes wrongly, IMO.

Of course, the decision to leave was sort of enacted by the government but it wasn't taken by them, it was taken by everyone who voted.This simply cannot be ignored, however much the people who claim to lead us or want to lead us might wish they could lay it aside. Your aim seems to be to go back to the outcome you'd have preferred in the first place, ASAP, and screw anyone who thinks differently.

Then surely "everyone who voted" should be allowed to see what a shit storm it's become and change their minds?

I.e. like a functioning democracy?

Rather, everyone who is eligible to vote if and when the question is asked next time will be able to consider the matter afresh.

The same people who wanted the other outcome last time, agitating to reverse course immediately just because they didn't get what they wanted and somehow they are the people who's decision should count. Where else would that be acceptable?

The difference being that the decision being reviewed occured back in 2016 was enacted 43 years prior, not 3 years prior as is currently the scenario with Brexit. So yes, aboslutely, if people want a review in another 37-40 years time those people should have one.

Brexiters seem to be of the opinion that once we joined we sat back and did nothing, didn't participate in decision making etc., during that 43 years. Now in the case of Farage as an MEP this was certainly true 41 out of 42 fisheries meetings not attended by him, supposedly the great champion of the fishing industry. We don't hear much from him now about fishing, funny that.

But otherwise, decisions were continually being reviewed and revised.