Brexit mega thread : part 9 : Winter is Coming

[Chevyimpala67]

Part 10 of our long running thread.

Not sure what to say, really, other than it is worse than I feared.

Strap in, folks. It's gonna be a rough ride...

...

I used to think Louise at least partially rational, but has lost me with these two:

That it elected the wrong President in 2020 is not something the UK can control

No rational person can look at the chaos and attack on the US’s democratic institutions and wish Trump the narcissist sociopath had been re-elected. People died because of the capital hill riot.

Compete fuckers or die is some crazed idealistic version of Hayek and Nozick idea of free market ideology rolled into one person. Maybe channeling Alice O’Connor.

There is absolutely no such thing as a ‘free’ market and never has been. Markets have and are always manipulated by those with more money and power.

However, it’s been illustrating to watch zealotry in actio.

Once the reality of Brexshit hits You'll be hard pressed to find anyone who admits to voting leave - only the true Beleavers. Who will seem increasingly unhinged in the face of economic and socio and geo political reality.

Worth noting that everything had been kicked into the long grass up to now. CE mark replacement, border controls, import/export rules....it goes on.

Once it really bites brexshit will be seen as a failed experiment - perpetrated by the elite on an uneducated minority.

Brexshit is a cult. Like Trumpism, De Pfeffle ism...they usually end badly.

@DrBlackbird - I used to bother engaging as there was a semblance of logic, even if I disagreed.

Now the posts are so lacking in any form of critical thinking or even awareness of real life (for ordinary people, let alone the vulnerable), I just scroll past . There's no value to be had in even trying to understand the logic

@Thatsasmashingblouseyouvegoton - I'd had the word "cult" in my post but edited it out. I hadn't read your post at the time - but it just shows that we're thinking along the same lines

I sense you and I are mostly on the same page @prettybird 🙂
Bon chance, mes amis

Once it really bites brexshit will be seen as a failed experiment - perpetrated by the elite on an uneducated minority.

Maybe. Or maybe what will happen is the MSM will brief that Brexit is the fault of the stupid working classes (waves at Louise) and it needs the Eton educated elite to rescue us from it.

Like a supertanker it will take a long time to turn around. But already the siren has sounded and the crew are taking their positions.

Yes. Possibly.

The only certainty is that the perpetrators will never pay for their perfidy.

Twas ever thus.

I'm reading Tim Marshall again (prisoners of geography) and it strikes me - again - how predictable this all was.

The war in Ukraine didn't just happen overnight. It started in 2014 with the annexation of Crimea. Arguably, it started when Putin gained power.

The brexshit perpetraitors have been agitating for decades (aided in more recent times by dark money and SM).

The lessons of history teach us what happens when nations veer to the far right.

Even the pandemic was predicted. Back in 2016 Michael gove was talking about it and the medical profession certainly were (those pesky experts so derided by brexshitters).

I urge you all to read it. Its depressing as fuck in its prescience.

But...cursed by hope as I am..
Perhaps we can learn from it?...

The war in Ukraine didn't just happen overnight. It started in 2014 with the annexation of Crimea. Arguably, it started when Putin gained power.

Oh it goes back a lot further than that. The "troubles" in Northern Ireland didn't just start in the 1970s.

Even the pandemic was predicted. Back in 2016 Michael gove was talking about it and the medical profession certainly were (those pesky experts so derided by brexshitters).

Well since I've been reading about the possibility of a pandemic (and more the consequences) since the 1990s, thats 20 years late to the party.

And the recent stories about viruses appearing where mankind is pushing into more natural habitats aren't cheering.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_bat_lyssavirus

I am interested to hear that you know about not only my level of intelligence but also my socio economic status. Impressive stuff since you don't know me from Adam.

All at the same time posters on here accuse me of having no understanding of ordinary people, and yet in the same breath I'm working class. You have no idea about my personal circumstances, none. Yet no one even questions the assumptions they make. Highly amusing.

And just like that, Farage said:

'This level of betrayal will never be forgiven. The Tories must be crushed. Rishi Sunak is a Goldman Sachs globalist, so this sellout of Brexit is not surprising.'

Apparently the leak came from the Treasury - ie Hunt.

Apple can make what they like. The EU can set the terms of access to their market as they like, and they have. If I were Apple I'd just append a massive premium to the purchase price for European spec Apple products and tell European consumers to write to their MEP if they are unhappy, but what Apple will actually do, who knows.

@LouiseCollins28
1-Apple has shareholders.
2- Shareholders file lawsuits when a company makes decisions that ultimately result in financial loss to the shareholders.
3- Financial loss will occur if Apple marks up its products beyond what the market will bear.
4-The market has its limits because Apple has competition in the EU.
5- Apple will comply with the EU requirements and present their compliance as a step in the direction of a greener Earth and consumer friendliness.
6-Obsolescence is the business model that generates Apple's profits. Consumers will buy the new improved cords and the phones they fit into.
7-The rest of the world will follow suit, in part because manufacturers will be able to increase production of universal chargers, offbrand and branded alike. Apple will make money from this. All will be well.
8-Unlike the UK, Apple will not turn its back on the second biggest market for its products out of sheer spite.

I get the impression from your post here that you believe governments should set prices across a wide range of goods and services? Would that be accurate?

I get the idea that you have a fundamental objection to modern commerce:
people need to be paying the real cost of produts but the money needs to be going to farmers, not supermarkets, so pay more, get less and be happy, so long as your money isn't going to a supermarket.
How would this supermarket-free utopia work?
Do you want us all to trek off to farms to barter hand knitted socks and pans of freshly baked brownies for pints of milk?

And I also note that you don't see the fundamental incompatibility of the priority of farmers making money with the priority of supermarkets sourcing the cheapest products:
Oh and supermarkets should be sourcing worldwide for the cheapest prices, which I'm sure they aren't. No contradition, none at all.
How does the average British sheep farmer make money if the supermarket chain has sourced lamb produced cheaply in Australia?

Also -
When you speak of a 'market', are you talking about some sort of weekend street market? A Christmas market? A fayre?
Do you understand the term as it related to Economics?

The war in Ukraine didn't just happen overnight. It started in 2014 with the annexation of Crimea. Arguably, it started when Putin gained power.

A glance at the history of alliances and power politics of the early modern period shows that there were many players sticking their noses into places where they really had no business sticking them.

Hence the Crimean War...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_War

Yoi didn't need a crystal ball to predict that

Theo Usherwood

ERG holds its regular Monday meeting later in Westminster.
ERG holds its regular Monday meeting later in Westminster.
^^
Senior member tells me they'll go "completely and utterly berserk" if there were any move towards a Swiss-style arrangement.
^^
"For many of us, it's the defining issue of why we are in politics."

In a major blow to Brexit voting Grimsby, bosses at the former Five Star Fish facility announce its closure blaming Brexit, the pandemic and the war in Ukraine. Owners, Icelandic Seafood International, will now focus on their European operations instead.
www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/news/grimsby-news/landmark-grimsby-seafood-factory-closing-7838339

🤷‍♀️
They were warned

In what I'm sure will delight Louise, the Impact Assessment for the Retained EU Law (Revocation & Reform) Bill has been released. Unsurprisingly, the verdict is "Not fit for purpose"...

What to do, what to do?

www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-63700905
Mr Sunak told business leaders that control of migration was one of the immediate benefits of Brexit.

Speaking at the CBI conference in Birmingham he said: "I voted for Brexit, I believe in Brexit.

"I know that Brexit can deliver, and is already delivering, enormous benefits and opportunities for the country."

He argued that the UK was now able to "have proper control of our borders".

He also said the UK was free to pursue trade deals with "the world's fastest-growing economies".

www.bbc.com/news/business-63697458
Mr Danker [CBI] said in his speech that the UK should enable "economic migration" in areas where skilled workers cannot be found.

He urged leaders to "be honest with people" over the country's "vast" labour shortages, adding "we don't have the people we need nor do we have the productivity".

"First, we have lost hundreds of thousands of people to economic inactivity post Covid," he said. "And anyone who thinks they'll all be back any day now - with the NHS under the pressure it is - is kidding themselves.

"Secondly, we don't have enough Brits to go round for the vacancies that exist, and there's a skills mismatch in any case. And third, believing automation can step in to do the job in most cases is unrealistic."

.................
Squaring the obvious circle here is going to prove difficult.

One ERG-er was blaming “complete failure SpAds” for the Swiss-style arrangements briefing over the weekend, which of course is no criticism of Will Dry, who’s just been appointed.

But given his hinterland, I am told his appointment is causing the ERG to “massively kick off”.

twitter.com/theousherwood/status/1594725646986629121?t=n--2jJ2hudcQrr2oZptPqg&s=19

iNews is reporting that EU officials have derided the British Government’s ‘chaotic’ approach to negotiations and said the much-reviled ‘Swiss mess’ is ‘not on the table’

Honestly, the more our Government deny it, the faster I get the popcorn out.

At this stage, Brexit has degenerated into an end-of-days religion and the main reason we are not seeing the benefits is because "we didn't try hard enough."

the much-reviled ‘Swiss mess’ is ‘not on the table’

One tiny flicker of common sense snuffed out before it had a chance. Sigh.

Tbf Will Dry looks about 12 and he was a Spad?

Didn't the EU say at the time that the UK was negotiating that the Swiss option was not on the table as it was far too much hassle and the size and breadth of the UK economy (compared to the Swiss economy) meant that it just wasn't feasible?