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Brexit

Brexit mega thread : part 9 : Winter is Coming

965 replies

Chevyimpala67 · 03/10/2022 16:25

Part 10 of our long running thread.

Not sure what to say, really, other than it is worse than I feared.

Strap in, folks. It's gonna be a rough ride...

OP posts:
Thread gallery
51
DrBlackbird · 23/10/2022 17:26

GreatHonkingPudding · 22/10/2022 09:04

Still, we've found a benefit of Brexit.

  1. Destroyed The Conservative Party.

One can only hope. It’s a faint hope for me, however, after listening to random people on the street being interviewed. Lol.

Peregrina · 24/10/2022 07:57

Well, well. Johnson pulls out of the contest to be PM. Because "it's the right thing to do." Right thing for whom? Johnson or the party or even the faint possibility that it might be for the country?

TheElementsSong · 24/10/2022 08:01

Peregrina · 24/10/2022 07:57

Well, well. Johnson pulls out of the contest to be PM. Because "it's the right thing to do." Right thing for whom? Johnson or the party or even the faint possibility that it might be for the country?

"I have 102 supporters but you won't know them, they go to a different parliament!"

Chersfrozenface · 24/10/2022 11:24

Well we all know the markets in general didn't like Liz Truss's vision for the economy, to put it mildly.

Now Guy Hands, admittedly not a fan of Brexit anyway, but a Tory party supporter, has weighed in on the way Brexit has been handled.

www.bbc.com/news/business-63371743

To quote GH in the BBC story
"The reality is when [the Tories] did Brexit, they had a dream. And the dream was a low-tax, low-benefit economy. Truss, to be fair to her, tried it but clearly it isn't something that's acceptable to the British people," he said.

"Once you accept that you can't actually do that, then the Brexit that was done is completely hopeless, and will only drive Britain into a disastrous economic state.

"So I think [if] the Tory party can own up to the mistake they made and how they negotiated Brexit and have somebody leading who actually has the intellectual capability and the authority to renegotiate Brexit, there is a possibility of turning around the economy, but without that the economy is frankly doomed."

Dear oh dear.

RayonSunrise · 24/10/2022 20:52

Hello all, it's been a while since I've done more than lurk on MN, but the latest round of ERG Brexit purity spiralling has brought me out of the woodwork.

Even Steve bloody Baker is suddenly sounding like he's trying to distance himself from his ERG past, as though he hasn't been chief backbench string puller for the hard right since Cameron was in charge. I'm not sure if this rats-leaving-a-sinking ship is anything other than trying to stop Wycombe voters from doing a Beaconsfield, though.

SerendipityJane · 24/10/2022 21:04

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/next-prime-minister-must-confront-the-truth-about-brexit-xjrsm3bdg

As the US commentator David Frum put it: The problem with the UK Tory
party is not the personal defects of the captain. The problem is that
youre not eligible for the captaincy unless you agree it was a brilliant
idea to scupper the ship in 2016 and can convincingly act baffled why it
has been sinking ever since.
Breaking this conspiracy of silence will be costly, but any leader who
cares about the national interest must recognise the single most important
thing that can be done for our countrys fortunes long-term:
to move back towards the great trading bloc just over the water. This does
not have to be a reversal of Brexit but a rethink about its form. No one
voted to leave the single market or the customs union. In the long term we
must seek to rejoin them.
Alas, I doubt Sunak will grasp this nettle. Sir Keir Starmer has already
written off rejoining the single market. Yet if either of these future
prime ministers were to have a Nobel moment of their own standing back
to think about how they want to leave our country they would not be
keeping silent on this act of self-sabotage, but working to fix it.
Public opinion is not to be feared, for it has shifted. Millions of us
watching the farce of recent months desperately want our nation to be
better than this. We remember when Britain was still seen as serious,
responsible and respectable, and we want to redeem that reputation. We
want to be a leader, not a laughing stock. We want, to coin a phrase,
our country back.

SerendipityJane · 25/10/2022 13:20

Grease-Smug gone ...

Peregrina · 25/10/2022 14:51

There seem to be an awful lot of Truss's Cabinet jumping before they are pushed. Can't see Sunak uniting the party somehow. Not that I mind that personally but the Country does need a functioning Government.

HannibalHeyes · 25/10/2022 14:53

From Jane's post above;

"but any leader who cares about the national interest"

And there, in a nutshell, is the problem...

SerendipityJane · 25/10/2022 17:31

There is another excellent article in today's Irish Times by David
McWilliams who is highly respected as a leading Irish Irish economist,
writer, and journalist.

www.irishtimes.com/opinion/2022/10/22/david-mcwilliams-it-is-tragic-how-far-the-uk-has-fallen

"London's Science Museum is a monument to British invention in genetics,
chemistry and engineering, from the steam engine to space travel. British
schoolchildren can have sleepovers in the museum surrounded by stories of
some wonderful feats of human imagination and ingenuity. In this
magnificent building innovators, those brilliant but sometimes difficult
men and women, are celebrated and eulogised.
The Science Museum is a tribute to creativity, and also to the remarkable
ability of British innovators to commercialise their breakthroughs.
Innovation is the single most important factor propelling an economy
forward. For many years Britain was pre-eminent in its ability to support
and sustain creative scientific minds, via universities and public
institutes, and this also included commercial support. The City of London
took risks, betting on new companies and new household products, from
vacuum cleaners to cars and washing machines, products that sometimes
changed the world. The innovations may not have originated there but
Britain produced industrial champions, it employed engineers, scientists
and assorted tinkerers, the people who - through a process of trial and
error - update, remodel and make the economy tick.
Britain dignified the efforts of entrepreneurs, as it did with great
artists, musicians and writers. In return the canon of British art and
literature is diverse and brilliant. In pop or contemporary music,
this is possibly one of the most creative places on earth.
Walking through the main hall of the Science Museum earlier this week,
against a background of economic and political chaos in Westminster,
it struck me how far the UK has fallen. It is tragic, and it is difficult
to see how Britain gets out of the mess that successive governments have
created. It is also hard to digest the enormity of the fall from grace.
A country that used to be the workshop of the world is a beggar. Sure,
there are lots of nice buildings, legacies of empire largely, but beneath
the facades of Kensington, Knightsbridge and Chelsea, the country is
atrophying - regionally, economically, constitutionally,
socially and emotionally. A new prime minister is not going to solve
problems that have been festering for a generation or more.
[]
The roots of this crisis can be traced back to the Thatcher experiment,
which was nothing more than a heist by one class and one region over the
rest. The financialisation of the entire economy meant that the City of
London morphed from a provider of capital to those brilliant engineers and
creative minds heralded in the Science Museum to being a spivvy casino of
venture capitalists, asset strippers,
short-term speculators and other assorted highly-paid bottom fishers.
The resulting inequality, which we highlighted in this column a few weeks
ago, has been crystallised in one statistic. In most of Europe the gap
between the top earners and the bottom earners after taxes is about three
times, the richest earners taking home three times more than the poorest
ones. In Ireland the top 10 per cent take home slightly more than three
times that of the poorest. In the UK the richest 10 per cent take home six
times more than the bottom 10 per cent. This figure tells you all you need
to know about the nature of inequality across the water, and this gap is
entirely policy-driven."

TheABC · 25/10/2022 17:41

But if it's policy-driven, it can be reversed.
That is what gives me hope - but we will only get it when it's in the political parties interests to do it. That's what we need to reform the system from donation caps to a long, hard look at PR.

FrankieStein403 · 25/10/2022 17:57

Page 5 of SA100 contains the section re higher income child benefit charge.

I would expect an accountant to ask whether you are in receipt of child benefit simply because until they work out your income they wont know whether the 50k clawback point has been reached.

In your case I might have expected you to have said 'whats that?' when asked and for them to explain.

Yes accountants are not benefits advisers but as a universal benefit they should be catching it in the basic data capture.

Of course its another of the professions (cf surveyors) where they avoid liability by getting you to certify the accuracy of the return before submission.

FrankieStein403 · 25/10/2022 17:58

Sorry - wrong thread obviously - please ignore.

Thatsasmashingblouseyouvegoton · 26/10/2022 09:03

Taken from a thread posted yesterday:

Yesterday 23:05

"10 years ago the UK had a AAA credit rating. The UK had been in the top tier of economies (similar to Australia, Canada, Germany, The Netherlands, Singapore) since 1978.

In 2013, our credit rating was downgraded and our cost of borrowing increased. Cuts in public spending were required.

In 2022, the UK's credit rating has been further reduced to a third or fourth tier economy with a credit rating on a par with the Czech republic. This is all down to Liz Truss and her unfunded tax cuts for the rich.

The increase in borrrowing costs means further cuts in public spending are required."

HappyWinter · 26/10/2022 12:37

It has happened so slowly that it is easy to miss how things have changed. Like boiled frogs, everything from the economy to public services and how prosperous the country feels have degraded so slowly that many people have only just noticed when it's got to breaking point with recent events. Looking back since 2010, austerity and Brexit, it feels like a less prosperous and well-functioning country now.

SerendipityJane · 26/10/2022 12:52

My memory is that the reason for austerity was to preserve the UKs AAA rating. If that's gone, it was all for nothing. With the media silence telling as to their complicity.

HannibalHeyes · 26/10/2022 12:58

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Brexit mega thread : part 9 : Winter is Coming
DrBlackbird · 26/10/2022 22:20

Anyone else bewildered and deeply disappointed by Sunak’s cabinet choices? Bloody repeat of Johnson’s. Why, when it was an opportunity to find fresh faces. Or is that the best that the Tory has to offer???

mathanxiety · 26/10/2022 22:49

Neither bewildered nor disappointed.

Tories gonna Tory.

Peregrina · 27/10/2022 00:12

How he expects a bunch of divisive retreads to unify the Party, never mind put the country first, is totally beyond me. The only consolation is that the old duffers in the party must be furious that it's an Asian man in charge,

HannibalHeyes · 27/10/2022 01:47

They're going to try, again, to paint it as a "fresh start", and a "new government".

But it's the same old same old. And I don't think even the mugs who read the Daily Heil are going to fall for it this time.

Particularly Cruella Braverman. I think she might be the one to bring the current incumbent down, quite soon...

borntobequiet · 27/10/2022 08:55

Or is that the best that the Tory has to offer???

Yes because all the genuinely capable ones were cast into the wilderness of the back benches from whence there is no return or have left politics altogether - Johnson’s doing, of course.

HannibalHeyes · 27/10/2022 11:44

Yep, all the "decent" ones refused to BeLeeeeeeeave enough and so were cast into the wilderness due to their lack of faith in unicorns...

Mirabai · 27/10/2022 11:59

Why is Sunak touting educational reform when 90% of state schools will run of money next year?

DuncinToffee · 27/10/2022 12:30

Worth keeping an eye on N. Ireland, the deadline for forming a government is midnight.