To ask what has improved since leaving the EU?

[Butterflyfluff]

I’ve just had to pay customs charges on something I ordered from Germany - whilst we were in the EU there were no such charges.

Which got me thinking.

Leaving hasn’t been the disaster some predicted but, I can’t think of anything that affects me that’s actually improved since leaving.

What have other people’s upsides been? (And just being able to say we’re not in the EU anymore doesn’t count! 😂)

@FatFredsFriedEgg See - that's exactly why people like you have no room for reasoned debate. You resort to put downs and shut downs because you don't have substance.
Am running along now. And not because I either approve or disapprove of your opinion.

*I'm one of those who generally sees closer political integration as a good thing-- more unity between relatively like-minded nations. I'm genuinely curious why you see it as a negative?

Also, how did the 'remoaners' draw things out and divert resources?Again, genuinely asking. I certainly saw huge amounts of complaining/horror/press, but I struggle to understand what real world effect that had?*

I think they are refering to moaners like Baby Boris and Jacob Rees Smug voting against their party in government.

This is (predictably) turning into a Brexit-bashing thread, so this is my only post on here. I'm not getting into any pathetic arguments with butt-hurt remainers.

Why should it be? Two years after we have left and one year after the Transition period ended, the benefits should be starting to come in now. I don't think we can count the benefits accruing to the Republic of Ireland. So far, we haven't seen any. If we did see VAT taken off fuel, then yes, that would be a benefit, but the Govt. has so far chosen not to remove it.

Ftr me and kids in Europe got jabbed before siblings and their kids in the UK.

@Peregrina

This is (predictably) turning into a Brexit-bashing thread, so this is my only post on here. I'm not getting into any pathetic arguments with butt-hurt remainers.

Why should it be? Two years after we have left and one year after the Transition period ended, the benefits should be starting to come in now. I don't think we can count the benefits accruing to the Republic of Ireland. So far, we haven't seen any. If we did see VAT taken off fuel, then yes, that would be a benefit, but the Govt. has so far chosen not to remove it.

Government won't take VAT off fuel, because Keir was pushing it in January and the government whipped its MPs to vote against.

And I despise the remoaners who fought against the result and drew everything out much longer than necessary and diverted resources. I understand how devastated so many remain voters must have felt at the result as it was so unexpected - even by Leave voters! - but that was no excuse to undermine a democratic vote

Talk about re writing history :(
May had a decent majority to push through anything she wanted but she was always stymied by the ERG, who wanted a far harder Brexit (which of course was never on the ballot paper)
She then called a GE, which altered the maths and getting any deal through Parliament far more difficult.

As for a democratic vote? just 17m out of 46m voted for it.

i think we can all see now that brexit has weakened the UK's influence in europe and who does that benefit? yep Mr Putin, who was one of Brexits biggest cheer leaders, along with Trump - who is probably insane.

Brexitiers have weakened the UK, split europe and in turn have made war more likely.

It was a democratic vote. If people couldn't be arsed to turn up on the day and actually vote, then they tacitly agree to accept the result whichever way it goes.
Now arguably, parameters for large scale change should be set at needing a specific percentage to be in favour. Or voting should be compulsory, even if you record a 'none of the above' or 'undecided' at elections. But so far that's not the way our voting system has ever worked.

And Brexiteers are not responsible for war in Europe - the people responsible are the ones who actually decide to go to war. I'm quite happy staying at home and minding my own business

@Aderyn21

It was a democratic vote. If people couldn't be arsed to turn up on the day and actually vote, then they tacitly agree to accept the result whichever way it goes. Now arguably, parameters for large scale change should be set at needing a specific percentage to be in favour. Or voting should be compulsory, even if you record a 'none of the above' or 'undecided' at elections. But so far that's not the way our voting system has ever worked.

I agree the winning side got the larger percentage in a democratic vote.

If remain had they would have won in same process.

@Aderyn21

And Brexiteers are not responsible for war in Europe - the people responsible are the ones who actually decide to go to war. I'm quite happy staying at home and minding my own business

Relative strength and response from NATO seems to be key

There is nothing democratic about a single decision made on less than 50% of the electorate.

Has Brexit weakened or strengthened the UK's position in Europe? and who benefits from a weakened European response?

Putin invade the Crimea in 2014, its clear he has a great deal of patience - Brexit was a godsend to him and why Boris will not look at Russian influence on the vote.....

The Ukraine, not being in NATO cannot be reliant on a NATO response & thanks to defence spending cuts, we are years away from having enough european defences against Russia and it does show the folly of relying on nuclear weapons, they have not and will not deter a determined foe.

I remember a few years, calling Russia the Soviets and getting slated on here for it.

It is democratic even if the outcome wasn’t wanted

If remain had won that side would be defending it and maybe the other making the same claim.

But higher petrol prices are nothing to do with Brexit.

I don't know that. There's fairly compelling evidence Russia was involved in the Leave campaign. Part of a destabilisation tactic allowing it to do exactly what it is doing now - invade Ukraine. Which has led to a surge in oil prices that were already on the rise in anticipation.

Brexit might not be the only reason. But it's in the mix there, I think.

“Democratic” only in the loosest sense given lawbreaking by vote leave and the lack of clarity ( ok lies)about what was on the table.
I’m not sure leavers can be said to be “responsible” for current instability but they’ve certainly contributed to it.
Putin is the real winner.

I very much wanted remain to win and there are points where it was a shame it came about - Cameron and the campaigns the leave one being more effective

But if it’s a democratic process then that’s the definition

And if Brexit hadn’t happened would we still be waking up to the news we are today - likely I imagine. We are not that important on the grand scale re our relationship re Brexit

NATO is more relevant right now

Vote Leave lied and cheated, this has been PROVEN. Arron Banks, Cambridge Analytica, Andy Wigmore, Farage, Richard Tice are pro-Putin/pro-Trump and working against the interests of the UK. Go and look at what Farage is saying literally RIGHT NOW about Ukraine on his twitter feed and on GB News. Sorry but leave voters were taken for fucking mugs.

@Hoolihan

Vote Leave lied and cheated, this has been PROVEN. Arron Banks, Cambridge Analytica, Andy Wigmore, Farage, Richard Tice are pro-Putin/pro-Trump and working against the interests of the UK. Go and look at what Farage is saying literally RIGHT NOW about Ukraine on his twitter feed and on GB News. Sorry but leave voters were taken for fucking mugs.

Tbh giving people like him more exposure by recognising what he Tweets or thinks is a bad way to go.

And if Brexit hadn’t happened would we still be waking up to the news we are today - likely I imagine. We are not that important on the grand scale re our relationship re Brexit

Would we? thats an unknown!
But the UK, in the EU was a very important relationship, together with France and Germany, the UK formed its direction.

Look what we are doing now? trying to get into a Pacific trading pact!! FFS!

Remember without Brexit, we wouldn't have a Govt of Brexitiers, no Johnson or Truss.

The UK would have helped form effective EU sanctions, now we sit on the side lines, awaiting events, not making or influencing them, neither the US or the EU take Bojo seriously.

NATO cannot do a thing, european wise, its extremely weak

Tbh giving people like him (Farage) more exposure by recognising what he Tweets or thinks is a bad way to go

Yet the referendum he molded is apparently democratic...... he has led this country to destruction, that needs to be recognised for what it is.

@Alexandra2001

And if Brexit hadn’t happened would we still be waking up to the news we are today - likely I imagine. We are not that important on the grand scale re our relationship re Brexit

Would we? thats an unknown!
But the UK, in the EU was a very important relationship, together with France and Germany, the UK formed its direction.

Look what we are doing now? trying to get into a Pacific trading pact!! FFS!

Remember without Brexit, we wouldn't have a Govt of Brexitiers, no Johnson or Truss.

The UK would have helped form effective EU sanctions, now we sit on the side lines, awaiting events, not making or influencing them, neither the US or the EU take Bojo seriously.

NATO cannot do a thing, european wise, its extremely weak

What do you think the U.K. should be doing? Right now wrt Ukraine?

Why do you say NATO is extremely weak.

I’m more worried about the provocation of the full force of NATO should it come to that, ie a Russian troops on NATO land, and the escalation we’d see - does this not worry you at all?

Imo leave would have happened regardless of any Russian involvement - we had many years prior to Brexit of people feeling that their legitimate concerns were ignored by politicians of all parties and the EU being a convenient place to hide for politicians when they didn't fancy dealing with issues that the electorate considered important but the politicians didn't want to take the flak over or that didn't suit their own priorities.
There's been a long history of governments and politicians lying to the electorate and laying blame where it suits, this didn't magically start with the Leave campaign!
The Remain campaign was lazy and arrogant and just confirmed to the electorate that politicians were taking our votes for granted.

@Aderyn21

Imo leave would have happened regardless of any Russian involvement - we had many years prior to Brexit of people feeling that their legitimate concerns were ignored by politicians of all parties and the EU being a convenient place to hide for politicians when they didn't fancy dealing with issues that the electorate considered important but the politicians didn't want to take the flak over or that didn't suit their own priorities. There's been a long history of governments and politicians lying to the electorate and laying blame where it suits, this didn't magically start with the Leave campaign! The Remain campaign was lazy and arrogant and just confirmed to the electorate that politicians were taking our votes for granted.

Just 600k leave voters had to vote differently and we would have stayed in.

In 2010, polling showed that membership of the EU wasn't even in the top 10 of peoples concerns.

Politicians will seek to blame anyone but themselves, Johnson is now laying the blame on EU reliance for Russian gas.....

Still no benefits or improvements?

I do think there's an argument for saying that leave (or any huge constitutional change) should only have been adhered to if a significant majority actively voted for it. Or if people weren't allowed to opt out of expressing an opinion.

If nothing else it would stop all this divisiveness, which is doing the country no good.

Alexandra the flip side is that not enough people felt strongly enough about remaining in the EU to actively go out and vote to stay in!