To ask what has improved since leaving the EU?

[Butterflyfluff]

I’ve just had to pay customs charges on something I ordered from Germany - whilst we were in the EU there were no such charges.

Which got me thinking.

Leaving hasn’t been the disaster some predicted but, I can’t think of anything that affects me that’s actually improved since leaving.

What have other people’s upsides been? (And just being able to say we’re not in the EU anymore doesn’t count! 😂)

“ The vaccine rollout could have been handled in exactly the same way if we'd remained in the EU.”

How?

How?

Because every member state had the option to opt out and do their own thing.

It's a disaster and nothing the Mogg says will change that. The only positive I can muster is that I look more carefully at food prices than I used to do and my political bullshit detector has been reactivated. Of course, it enabled BJ to become PM and that must be a positive .......(?)

The UK had every chance to limit EU citizens’ access to the NHS/benefits. They chose not to. A floundering Conservative party gambled on the small-mindedness and gullibility of the Sun/Express/Mail-reading public and manipulated them into thinking all the ills of the country were down to the EU. So many fell for it, not having the will or diligence to research past the foaming at the mouth headlines. The Conservatives further capitalised on the situation around Terrorism, conveniently not mentioning the acts of terrorism that took place across the world were generally home-grown, and had little to do with free movement.

I don’t think those that voted Leave are thick, I do think they’ve been manipulated and their fears deflected into the wrong direction. I think defending Brexit now, citing things like passports and pint glasses is a bit pathetic honestly, you didn’t vote for that shit. What you voted for doesn’t exist, and never will. The motivator for Brexit will be found in the names of shareholders from companies making a killing, from the changes of ownership and diverted hedging funds and accounts. You made the super rich richer, you weakened the UK and you weakened your own financial security.

All because the Tories wanted you to, and you couldn’t be bothered to read any further than SM/gutter press. Led by donkeys and followed by them too.

Some of the Tories - as Cameron walked

Labour could have been strongly remain it might have helped them. Iirc Lib Dem came out strongly

I agree the campaign was highly effective in terms of hitting the right notes for many. I didn’t vote for it but I can see why it worked in a way

There’s an interesting programme on it that shows how some messages were dialled up to maximum effect

I'll flip this over, @HonestwithHope1, what can I say about a whole-life experience of being a dual UK-EU citizen, multilingual, professionally qualified and yet coming across certain attitude in this country over and over again, alongside many of my friends and colleagues being in the same position as me?

That attitude is 'oh, you're half-X or your dad/mum is X, did you come here to work [as a fruit picker/delivery driver/restaurant waitress (cross out if doesn't apply)'] -
As if this was a reason to be ashamed of in the first place. In my case no, but I did many of those jobs before I climbed the ladder. I moved around with my family, not for economic reasons and certainly not for the benefit system 😂

'How long have you been here for?' - many, many years...why even ask? If I say 22 years then that will be OK as I'll be more British and less X? What if I say 12? Good enough?

'Your English is fantastic' - err, thanks, I'm dual...it is my core language.

There is a shocking number of people in this country with a superior attitude, open or hidden, poking through with subtle judgement here and there. But it is present. And this is because people aren't open minded enough and read whatever narrative the rags here feed you. This is also the reason why there is a large group of people here who feel entitled and consider the jobs you referred to are beneath them. So many of these jobs are available now, where are the thousands of British people running to take them? Wages have risen already, still not enough interest has been generated. There's a reason for this.

Oh, but yes sorry - I shall shut up now and go back to my dual citizen/EU passport holder servitude box because as I live here, I must belong to a box, otherwise I don't think I can exist

@Bunnyfuller Exactly!

I would add that EU membership was a question that should never have been put to the UK's pop.
It is just far too complicated, who knew about the workings of eurotom, horizon, SM, CU, WTO, trade deals?

We elect politicians to act in our best interests not acting in their own, which is what Boris has done & to some extent, T.May, she never had to trigger art50, she did so for the sake of her party.

This is also the reason why there is a large group of people here who feel entitled and consider the jobs you referred to are beneath them. So many of these jobs are available now, where are the thousands of British people running to take them? Wages have risen already, still not enough interest has been generated. There's a reason for this

The people shouting about jobs etc were retired or already working, it was a cheap shot slogan.

The UK has an aging population and a relatively unskilled workforce, esp those who are long term unemployed, so how do you take someone with 4 GCSE's, 2 children and turn them into a Nurse, an Engineer or an electrician?
It takes years of training - not going to happen.

We simply do not have enough people able to take up jobs such as care work, people can leave this industry and work for more money and less stress in other sectors.

Casual racism is disgusting.

@TheKeatingFive

Our vaccination programme was rolled out quickly because we were not locked in to EU purchasing plans

Any EU state could opt out of the purchasing plan if they wanted to. So no, that's not a benefit.

In theory yes, in reality, it didn't happen.

I remember reading on Covid threads that a few countries banded together to do their own thing re vacinnes, but they were rapidly pulled into line and their plan was taken over by the EC for the whole bloc.

In theory yes, in reality, it didn't happen.

So? It could have. The U.K. has gone their own way many times before, often against the wishes of the other states.

The fact that no one else did it is neither here nor there to whether the U.K. could have done it. The mechanism was there.

My British grandparent died, my Dutch grandparents survived. My Dutch grandparents got offered the vaccine a month and a half after my British grandparent, but covid was way more rife in the UK than the Netherlands at the time. I know which one I would choose.

In the end I got offered the vaccine 1 month later than my British peers. Not exactly worth Brexit now is it...

@Alexandra2001 You're right. This is why, if Brexit was ever to have any benefit to this country, the way to go about it was to invest in people first, train, educate, promote the sectors that were anticipated to be significantly affected. What consecutive governments in this country did instead was they cut funding and bursary support eg to nurses in education and failed to implement any, not to mention a cohesive, strategy to fill the future gaps. It's been obvious before the vote that this was coming. Then they dragged their feet for 5 years before finally leaving and still did nothing.

Lamb prices have been up ever since we left. They used to be around £80 a head,the past year has seen them rocket to between £120- £140 a head for fat lambs.

@MuddlingMackem
Germany pulled out of that that program, others then followed.

But in the end, did it matter? the EU very quickly caught back up, overtook us and the UK has the highest overall death toll and of comparable nations, in the top 3 for deaths per capita.

On excess deaths, thought to be the best method, the UK has the highest death toll however you measure it.

Don't worry, we soon have cheaper imported NZ lamb, never mind British farmers.

@MuddlingMackem perhaps to ensure a stronger purchase position, thus saving ALL member countries money.

Whereas the UK is ruled by the shareholders of such drug companies, so buying at higher prices was a win-win. Make a packet of money AND play the hero of the hour (carefully not wanting to focus on late lockdowns, special handshake procurement, care homes and 2-tier rule observation.

You know what I genuinely don’t get? I don’t think anyone can argue that the cost of living is rocketing (remember the EU is limiting the energy rises, unlike here), wages are not catching up, interest rates starting to climb, GDP (when fully assessed long term against other nations) is tanking and NHS queues will never catch up (they had already ballooned prior to Covid, it’s terminal now), import/export is carnage/fishermen are extremely bitter at their floundering (see what I did there?!) industry - why are people STILL defending them? Why has there not been - STILL - even one tangible benefit that’s genuinely better for the UK as a nation.

Since this all started I have begged so many times for just one, concrete, genuine benefit to the UK as a whole. Something that’s genuinely improved something for the country.

Not the ‘unelected officials’ trope - we have that running the country right now.

Not the ‘sovereignty’ line - no one seems to be able to expand that into a tangible benefit. The majority of the changes we could make independent of the EU just quietly haven’t happened. Sanitary protection tax could have been done long before, so that doesn’t count.

Certainly not the immigration angle. More asylum seekers are making the dangerous trip here than ever before. Brexit was never going to stop ‘illegal immigrants’ because they are ILLEGAL as in they aren’t following any rules to get here. We will STILL need to call on other countries to fill vacancies. Been into Healthcare recently? I honestly think I’d be dead a few times over if it weren’t for ‘foreigners’ in the NHS. You can’t just make someone want to go into a job, you can’t just make someone clever enough to be a cardiologist, or neurologist, or truck driver, or vet, or pharmacist…
And the leisure industry. Has always been poorly paid, all over the world. Usually staffed by students working hard and playing hard. I did it to get me through years or study and party. But it seems many native uk youngesters don’t want to start at the bottom, aren’t prepared to work their arses off and share accommodation and WALK to work at ANTISOCIAL hours. So we sent all the EU people home, the ones that accepted unskilled/unqualified meant fucking hard work until they could save/study/qualify to get something better.

Brexit has taken us to a place (helped by Covid, which the govt everywhere should have factored for - it’s on the doomsday clock (pandemic) where things are becoming less and less affordable, we are becoming less healthy, schools and MH services are not getting the ratio of funds they need, ditto councils, ditto police…

1. How will this help fill those vacancies, fill them at that ‘fair’ wage (which will just increase everything else)?
2. How can you reconcile things such as record profits for BP etc, squandered funds during the pandemic, arrogance around Covid rules, working families having to choose heat/eat?

HOW CAN YOU CONTINUE TO DEFEND THEM WHILE THEY ROB YOU OPENLY AND MAKE YOU THANK THEM?

Now, THAT’S stupid.

So from this thread I gather that the benefits of brexit are the freedom to go full nazi and 'assist' those who are a burden to society to die. And other benefits that are so amazing they're like fairies and cannot be named in front of unbelievers as their unbelief will kill them.

@TheKeatingFive

In theory yes, in reality, it didn't happen.

So? It could have. The U.K. has gone their own way many times before, often against the wishes of the other states.

The fact that no one else did it is neither here nor there to whether the U.K. could have done it. The mechanism was there.

So yes, it could have.

My point is that given what happened to the other countries, it probably wouldn't have. From what I can remember the UK was always more conscientious about implementing EU rules than some other member states so would very likely have felt compelled to toe the party line on this too. So it is impossible to rule this out at as Brexit benefit, even if you can only rule it in as a possible benefit rather than a definite one. :)

From what I can remember the UK was always more conscientious about implementing EU rules than some other member states so would very likely have felt compelled to toe the party line on this too.

You're just talking total rubbish now. That statement has no basis in fact whatsoever.

They opted out of all kinds of things including the euro, of course they could have opted out of this

I get that you really want this to be benefit, but it clearly isn't

So, if we ignore Covid, as that didn’t form part of the Leave campaign…

One tangible, genuine benefit to the uk? Anyone? One that improves the average UK citizen’s life? As in ‘the majority’ because presumably that’s what ‘the majority’ voted for?

Just one that fits the above criteria, no one could naysay something that fits that…

Nearly an hour and zilch.

Honestly, maybe there aren't any tangible benefits yet, and maybe there won't be for a while. I didn't vote Leave for any of the campaign reasons, I didn't actually take any notice of them, because I'd made up my mind years before.

For me the benefits are not being part of an organisation which is pushing for closer and closer political integration, I don't think we could have held on to our opt-outs indefinitely, at some point we were going to have to be wholly in or get off the ride. Now many remainers wanted closer integration, and I respect that, but I feel differently and voted accordingly in good faith.

The implementation of leaving has undoubtedly been a shit-show. The hubris of the then government taking a remain vote success for granted and not having a draft leave strategy in place is unforgivable, especially given the impact on Northern Ireland. And I despise the remoaners who fought against the result and drew everything out much longer than necessary and diverted resources. I understand how devastated so many remain voters must have felt at the result as it was so unexpected - even by Leave voters! - but that was no excuse to undermine a democratic vote.

The main problems appear to be because we are no longer part of the single market. Had we still been in the EEC rather than in the EU I would have voted remain, but all the other aspects were what I disagreed with. However, having seen in my work just how shit many companies were with filling in export paperwork for UK destinations when we were part of the trading bloc and there was very little required, it really doesn't surprise me that there are so many ongoing issues now that we have left and extra paperwork is needed.

@FatCatThinCat

So from this thread I gather that the benefits of brexit are the freedom to go full nazi and 'assist' those who are a burden to society to die. And other benefits that are so amazing they're like fairies and cannot be named in front of unbelievers as their unbelief will kill them.

😆

@TheKeatingFive

From what I can remember the UK was always more conscientious about implementing EU rules than some other member states so would very likely have felt compelled to toe the party line on this too.

You're just talking total rubbish now. That statement has no basis in fact whatsoever.

They opted out of all kinds of things including the euro, of course they could have opted out of this

I get that you really want this to be benefit, but it clearly isn't

It is very important to post total rubbish at least twice a day.

Facts are used by experts and we know what we are supposed to think of experts.

I didn't actually take any notice of them, because I'd made up my mind years before
For me the benefits are not being part of an organisation which is pushing for closer and closer political integration, I don't think we could have held on to our opt-outs indefinitely, at some point we were going to have to be wholly in or get off the ride. Now many remainers wanted closer integration, and I respect that, but I feel differently and voted accordingly in good faith

The EEC/EU charter is for the closer union of peoples, its not political union and as a large contributor to the EU, we had a very strong negotiating position to keep any opt outs.

Despite many years of deliberation, you don't seem to have considered the advantages of EU membership or, by leaving, the benefits taken away from the young that so many leave voters enjoyed themselves....