Brexit mega thread part 5 : new year new PM? Partygate continues...

[Opal8]

Morning

New thread

I don't want to link to the Daily Mail, but I am certainly of the opinion that we would not have won had Hitler not attacked Russia. As for the war against Japan, I am of the opinion that this was primarily an American war, although Britain was keen to try to defend its Empire. Which it failed to do spectacularly with Singapore.

I'll get ds1 to read that article
He knows far more about WW2 than I do

What the guidance doesn't make clear though is that even if we were still in the EU the new regulations would still only apply to vehicles used for international journeys.

I added the caveat that it didn't need to apply domestically. The point I was making is that when it comes down to it, if we want to trade with the EU we have to follow their rules. Which is not the story we were told. They needed us more than we needed them, don't forget. They would bow down to our wishes. So in this case, we should have expected and demanded to have an exemption for international journeys

I have reserved the Hitchen's book from the Library. It should be an interesting read.

I see parallels with my own childhood - we were stuffed full of stories about the Empire, yet we would go home and see on the TV yet another country gain Independence. It didn't quite add up.

I added the caveat that it didn't need to apply domestically.

I got that, I was making the point that it wouldn't apply domestically even if we were still in the EU. So the government line "As the UK is no longer a member of the EU, there is no requirement to implement these changes domestically." is deliberately misleading.

OK, thanks. I missed that subtlety - but it's absolutely par for the course for the Brexiters.

Ds1 says that no, Poland wasn't a democracy.

He also says that the bombing of German civilians/non staregic targets is hard to excuse and many felt so at the time.

We both feel that the timing of the book release is "Interesting"....the article is very anti EU. Ds1 says "it has a whiff of the daily mail about it and their jingoistic nostalgia".

Ds points out that its been British policy for hundreds of years to undermine the dominant European power....(France, Spain, Germany...)

He agrees with his points about the Jews.

Ds1 would argue that the UK was already broken as a great power after WW1.

"We didn't want the war" - define "won"?

As for jingoistic nonsense -we could also re-examine the defeat at Dunkirk. (How dare I be so unpatriotic.) It was only in about 2016 that I found out that one of the military commanders saw that the East and West Moles at Dunkirk were undefended. One was inaccessible but the other one was reachable, and he thought it was worth the calculated risk of seeing whether it was strong enough to run a ship alongside. It was, and that got something like 70% of the men off. Who otherwise would have been lost. So the real hero to me is the Military Commander who did his job well.

Ds says that only the US "won" and if we had joined the forerunner of the EU in the 1950s we would have been able to shape it and not suffered the financial crises of the 70s.
He also says that we didn't join due to a mixture of English exceptionalism and wanting to keep the US sweet.

I think your DS is right Opal8.

@Peregrina

I think your DS is right Opal8.

WW2 is his specialty. He predicted the current situation in Ukraine 2 years ago :(

Is he able to predict the outcome? You would hope that everyone would back off, with some sort of compromise - but with the amateurs we have in charge, that's not likely.

He's not optimistic

I have a family member who lives in a former Communist bloc country bordering Ukraine, where there is keen awareness of just what Russia is like. She is very well-informed and very, very concerned.

@Peregrina

I don't want to link to the Daily Mail, but I am certainly of the opinion that we would not have won had Hitler not attacked Russia. As for the war against Japan, I am of the opinion that this was primarily an American war, although Britain was keen to try to defend its Empire. Which it failed to do spectacularly with Singapore.

I remember my mother saying that when Hitler attacked Russia my gran said, "Good, we'll win now."

My mother had a GI boyfriend, he hated being stationed in Europe and wanted to go to the far east and fight "his" war.

The UKs part in the war (once it was clear we had no intention of winning) was to simply hold the fort until the US cavalry arrived.

If you want to be really provocative, you can take the view that some Americans do, that the UKs only contributions were to cut off oils supplies and prevent Germany developing "the bomb" before the US. All else is fluff.

The outcome will be whatever Putin wants. Unless Europe has the stomach for a sudden lack of gas (hint: we don't). And the fact that the US would by and large be immune to Russian gas-based jiggery pokery makes for some interesting tensions around the NATO able. Because it will be the Europeans who are holding the US back.

Already the fact that Johnson, Truss and Wallace - the three stooges - have flown to Putins summons rather than the SOP of summoning Russias ambassador tells us who's in charge. And having got there, they had to submit to a Monty Python inspired taunting.

теперь уходите, или я буду насмехаться над вами во второй раз.

they said as they saw Liz Truss' best feature: The back of her head

.

Pmk and thanks for all the insight on this thread

This weekend, a handful of Chagossians returned to the islands they were forcefully deported from, which is pretty amazing news.

Now Mauritius has claimed the Chagos.
It's hard not to see this as symptomatic of the UK's diminished status on the international, stage.
www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/14/mauritius-formally-challenges-britains-ownership-of-chagos-islands

It's not hard to laugh at the irony of the UK telling Russia how to behave on the international scene while at the same time thumbing its nose at the UN. Self awareness on an international level has never been a strong point of British governments.

Er, Jacob Grease-Morgue telling people he backs calls to unilaterally accept foreign rules on trade!

“However, the IEA says Britain must nevertheless unilaterally recognise EU rules and the CE mark in the interest of a “new radical free trade policy"

What was all that about "taking back" something ot other...

Any one got paracetamol? Seemed to have banged my head in the desk too hard.

FFS.

I posted this on the BJ thread, but it's worth linking here, too...
Hugo Rifkind on "the Remoaner Plot"
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/2d4b3eb0-8dcc-11ec-87eb-ee84fabc72c9?shareToken=be21e5a36ab0cfa5fc2c26c24537cf78

www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/how-old-will-you-be-when-you-see-your-first-brexit-benefit-20220215217399