Brexit Megathread Part 3: COP26 and beyond. The Empire is no more.

[prettybird]

The old thread is nearly full so as COP26 is in my home town, I thought I'd start the next one.

I'm not expecting anything wonderful from COP26. The selfishness that is Brexit will extend to the rich nations - or rather corporations, countries and cronies - not wanting to do anything that might actually cost them money or hurt their profits and having made their money on the back of the resources of the poorer nations (in some cases quite literally ), they'll expect them to pay the price for the riches of the West.

The deliberate mistranslation of France's letter to the EU will distract from real issues - but that's ok for BJ as he can then blame the perfidious French.

Nothing changes.

There probably is an element of ideological purity spiralling but it might be hard to identify amid the long-standing deep-rooted xenophobic background of its supporters.

Remember when we were constantly told "Brexit doesn't mean we hate Europeans" and "Brexit isn't about immigration" and "Brexit doesn't mean we can't have a lovely cooperative productive relationship with Europeans" etc etc?

And then it turned into "As long as some Europeans are badly affected, therefore Brexit is a success" with remarkable alacrity. Now we're down to scraping the barrel of "We've got rid of language schools and French teenagers, therefore Brexit is a success!"

@Peregrina

Certainly the Brexiters seem to have developed a hatred of anything EU - except for the ones who have second homes in France or Spain, of course.

The 'soft power' that we had has been completely trashed as you say.

I genuinely do think that the leading Brexiters were in the main so ignorant that they really did think that the rest of the world would come running in to do trade deals, and were decidely miffed when Obama told them they would have been at the back of the queue, but they didn't take the hint and realise that if it was the case with the USA it would have been for other countries. And the Trump won, so they all breathed a sigh of relief. Others, the Britannia unchained lot, just want to make as much money for themselves as possible - and have no loyalty to anything but that God.

The loss of that "soft power" is more essential that many in your government ever gave a thought to.

Soft power is everything - it means a country is liked and it impacts politics and business. It's not quantifiable, you can't put a price on it, but is essential in business deals when confidence with familiar is key.

For me, this is one of the real casualties of Brexit, the loss of affection/soft power for Britain for so many European people.

You'll forgive me Alondra for not being improverished when you say I am, or at least, not for the reasons you suggest.

Affection for our culture is long gone I think. Witness Eurovision as an example.

I'd have a hard time pointing out what our culture even was any more, I think we have "cultures" here in the UK, some very local some with worldwide influences.

Our national one (insofar as it exists) is so diluted, debased and homogensised that it's almost meaningless now and I find it very hard to identify with. If I can't, and I've lived here all my life, you might understand it's hard to be joyful when people claim that other Europeans continuing to identify with it is super important.

Affection for our culture is long gone I think. Witness Eurovision as an example.

Are we still on about how the UK don't win Eurovision because they all hate us? Come off it. The UK lose because we don't put the effort in and send crap songs, badly performed.

And like it or not, income from tourism is important to the economy. By alienating people from other countries young, we are cutting off that revenue stream to an extent. That's never a smart thing to do.

But go on, Louise. Enjoy your precious Brexit.

So you have culture Louise collins, but the rest of Europe have "cultures" do you have any inkling of how offensive and ignorant you are?

Maybe pop to your local high street and buy a book on the history of your "culture". A bit of actual knowledge may enlighten you as to what a melting pot our " culture" is and always has been . Or are you talking about something else, but calling it culture so as not to frighten the horses?

@LouiseCollins28

You'll forgive me Alondra for not being improverished when you say I am, or at least, not for the reasons you suggest.

Affection for our culture is long gone I think. Witness Eurovision as an example.

I'd have a hard time pointing out what our culture even was any more, I think we have "cultures" here in the UK, some very local some with worldwide influences.

Our national one (insofar as it exists) is so diluted, debased and homogensised that it's almost meaningless now and I find it very hard to identify with. If I can't, and I've lived here all my life, you might understand it's hard to be joyful when people claim that other Europeans continuing to identify with it is super important.

If you think affection for British culture depends on an singing contest no one really gives a damn in Europe you don't really understand what affection or culture really mean.

Sorry but I'm still in shock. LouiseCollins28 did you really equate soft power to an Eurovision contest? Good fkn grief!

From wikipedia...

Soft power in politics (and particularly in international politics), is the ability to attract co-opt rather than coerce (contrast hard power). In other words, soft power involves shaping the preferences of others through appeal and attraction.

@wewereliars

So you have culture Louise collins, but the rest of Europe have "cultures" do you have any inkling of how offensive and ignorant you are?

Maybe pop to your local high street and buy a book on the history of your "culture". A bit of actual knowledge may enlighten you as to what a melting pot our " culture" is and always has been . Or are you talking about something else, but calling it culture so as not to frighten the horses?

I literally said "cultures" myself in my post. I'm not even sure what you are disagreeing with here.

@Alondra

Sorry but I'm still in shock. LouiseCollins28 did you really equate soft power to an Eurovision contest? Good fkn grief!

From wikipedia...

Soft power in politics (and particularly in international politics), is the ability to attract co-opt rather than coerce (contrast hard power). In other words, soft power involves shaping the preferences of others through appeal and attraction.

No, I said affection for our culture was gone and cited an example. I didn't equate it with anything.

I know what soft power is, thank you.

Of course you are not sure Louise Collins. Every post you type makes it clear you don't have a clue.

Empty barrels make most noise.

No, I said affection for our culture was gone and cited an example.

Can you cite examples other than Eurovision because I don't really understand what you are going on about me being foreign and all

No, I said affection for our culture was gone and cited an example. I didn't equate it with anything.

Of course you did. Citing the example of Eurovision was the way you were equating the lack of affection for British culture.

I know what soft power is, thank you.

No, you don't. You have no idea how much power a nation can easily lose after years of being looked on approvingly by people in other nations. You will find out soon enough.

@Alondra

No, I said affection for our culture was gone and cited an example. I didn't equate it with anything.

Of course you did. Citing the example of Eurovision was the way you were equating the lack of affection for British culture.

I know what soft power is, thank you.

No, you don't. You have no idea how much power a nation can easily lose after years of being looked on approvingly by people in other nations. You will find out soon enough.

So, lets take some examples.

The United States, would it be fair to suggest that it lost some soft power big time in the period 2016-2020? Impact on America's power in the world = zero.

Since 2020, US soft power back in spades, presumably(?) yet, Afghan withdrawal debacle, Eastern Europe border crisis, US Mexican border crisis, zero impact in persuading India, China and Australia to "phase out" coal power at Cop 26.

I guess what you mean is do people like us? How much soft power does the UK actually have? People come here (vistors I mean) they spend money here, they leave (hopefully) with a favourable impression of the UK and its people.

All the while, people the world over complain that what the UK does isn't enough... not green enough, not enough aid being given, not enough vaccine doses, too racist, too many things in the British Museum that should be in other places, etc, etc.They complain they want more from our government whom they have no say in electing (for which please read "more from our people"). They want to change Britain, while they don't have a stake in Britain.

When were we ever looked upon approvingly?

How exceptionalist to expect other countries to like our Eurovision entries when we don't even like them ourselves. Don't they know who we are!

People come here (vistors I mean) they spend money here, they leave (hopefully) with a favourable impression of the UK and its people.

The problem is that the UK's current situation and behaviour are going to lead to peole not wanting to come here, much less leaving with a favourable impression. The anti-EU and anti-foreigner blustering, the barriers placed in the way of young people wanting to visit, work or study - all of those things contribute to a negative image of the UK. Add to that the news about falling environmental standards, shortages and a disregard for COVID safety (because no masks or social distancing required) and it makes the UK look deeply unattractive. The CNN article linked above paints a bleak picture.

@pointythings

People come here (vistors I mean) they spend money here, they leave (hopefully) with a favourable impression of the UK and its people.

The problem is that the UK's current situation and behaviour are going to lead to peole not wanting to come here, much less leaving with a favourable impression. The anti-EU and anti-foreigner blustering, the barriers placed in the way of young people wanting to visit, work or study - all of those things contribute to a negative image of the UK. Add to that the news about falling environmental standards, shortages and a disregard for COVID safety (because no masks or social distancing required) and it makes the UK look deeply unattractive. The CNN article linked above paints a bleak picture.

All of this might be true and I get the negative image point, even though I put less importance on it than some people on here. Those are things that people who live here, who pay tax here, who vote here want to happen, or at least more people do want it to happen (as expressed via votes) than don't want it to happen.

What you're asking for is that the interests of people who don't vote, live, pay in... etc here are priviledged over the interests of people who do.

@pointythings

People come here (vistors I mean) they spend money here, they leave (hopefully) with a favourable impression of the UK and its people.

The problem is that the UK's current situation and behaviour are going to lead to peole not wanting to come here, much less leaving with a favourable impression. The anti-EU and anti-foreigner blustering, the barriers placed in the way of young people wanting to visit, work or study - all of those things contribute to a negative image of the UK. Add to that the news about falling environmental standards, shortages and a disregard for COVID safety (because no masks or social distancing required) and it makes the UK look deeply unattractive. The CNN article linked above paints a bleak picture.

But why would we want those foreigners coming here anyway. Not that we have Brexit we have taken back control of our borders and this is a good example of the benefits of that.

Mrs DGRs wheelchair is off the road for the foreseeable future. No spare parts to repair the brakes. I can't imagine why (no shortages reported in Europe according to her Facebook friends).

Luckily she has me to help. Otherwise she'd be bedbound. With the pressure on services that implies.

According to the mechanic that called, this isn't (a) isolated or (b) getting any better.

@DGRossetti

Mrs DGRs wheelchair is off the road for the foreseeable future. No spare parts to repair the brakes. I can't imagine why (no shortages reported in Europe according to her Facebook friends).

Luckily she has me to help. Otherwise she'd be bedbound. With the pressure on services that implies.

According to the mechanic that called, this isn't (a) isolated or (b) getting any better.

Well if the part is in Europe why are our supposed European friends being so mean in not sending it to you?

Well if the part is in Europe why are our supposed European friends being so mean in not sending it to you?

I didn't say the part was in Europe. I said that people in Europe were not having problems getting wheelchairs repaired die to lack of spares.

Which was what I said first time.

What you're asking for is that the interests of people who don't vote, live, pay in... etc here are priviledged over the interests of people who do.

Not at all. I'm fully aware that people voted for (shorthand alert) closed borders and fewer foreigners.

But the people who voted that way need to understand that what they want is going to have a negative impact on the UK economy and thus on their finances and day to day lives. You can't eat the results of a vote.

DGR's OH's wheelchair repair is one of those negative impacts. And sadly it's falling on someone who didn't vote for it.

Choices have consequences.

Re US soft power loss - Iran now asking for guarantees that US won't renege. Putin testing anti-satellite missiles. Putin stoking fun at the Belarus border. China sabre rattling re Taiwan.

The Trump era shaped an external view of the US as an unreliable/fragile state. His isolation of Chyna pushed them out of the fold.

De Pfeffel has similarly shaped the external view of the UK as an unreliable possibly racist partner - we'll see how much further into the pit the tossers in government take us - there doesn't seem to be any limit at the moment.

According to the allegedly anti-Brexit BBC (), two things that have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with Brexit:
Staff shortages in the NHS www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59249409
Things costing more: www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59266759

There is an interesting interview with Alexandra Hall Hall on RTE discussing her work explaining Brexit in the US and what led her to resign:
www.rte.ie/radio1/podcast/podcast_brexitrepublic.xml
Scroll down to A Turnip for the Books.

Soft power greatly helped the UK to obtain opt-outs while remaining an EU member. The consequences of the rapid loss of soft power, along with the current display of arrogant ineptitude, the obvious corruption and the disregard for basic standards of integrity and honesty, will be increasingly tangible.

The UK isn't the US and never will be.

jgw you should be ashamed of your taunting tone to someone whose partner is struggling with a wheelchair that doesn’t work.