Brexit Megathread Part 3: COP26 and beyond. The Empire is no more.

[prettybird]

The old thread is nearly full so as COP26 is in my home town, I thought I'd start the next one.

I'm not expecting anything wonderful from COP26. The selfishness that is Brexit will extend to the rich nations - or rather corporations, countries and cronies - not wanting to do anything that might actually cost them money or hurt their profits and having made their money on the back of the resources of the poorer nations (in some cases quite literally ), they'll expect them to pay the price for the riches of the West.

The deliberate mistranslation of France's letter to the EU will distract from real issues - but that's ok for BJ as he can then blame the perfidious French.

Nothing changes.

You what now

First and most important, Brexit was voted FOR, maybe the Beeb should try reporting what the people who've voted for it want, they haven't.

The BBC have reported quite extensively about EU workers leaving the UK - isn't that what Leavers wanted? They've also of course reported about the consequences of those departures - did Leave voters want the BBC to shut up about that?

Levelling up funds - not a consequence of Brexit as this could have been done without leaving the EU.

Fewer fishing licenses - yes, but fisheries are doing so well post Brexit, as has been reported by the BBC (and other news outlets).

Fewer exports to the EU - well, I'm sure this has its silver linings from an environmental point of view, but it isn't great for many thousands of small businesses in the UK. As has been extensively reported by many news outlets, the BBC included.

The PM also flew to the COP26 by plane, so nothing to boast about there. He also didn't wear a mask in the hospital. Maybe think about that? His non-mask wearing was reported extensively as it bloody well should have been.

I recall plenty of coverage of the UK's vaccine triumph, so I have no idea what you're on about with that one.

You seem to want the BBC and other media outlets to collectively decide only to report on how great Brexit is, how well it is going, how happy everyone is with it. Sorry, that isn't what's happening.

First and most important, Brexit was voted FOR, maybe the Beeb should try reporting what the people who've voted for it want, they haven't.
Irrelevant in reporting news about what is happening now You still seem to be expecting them to make up positive stories.
I note you've still not answered the question about QT bias

Levelling up funds - nothing positive
Quantify. And remind me again where the £350 million per week for the NHS is (and no, the emergency funds for COVID do t count)?
Where is the Levelling Up that the North of England had actually asked for, like the East-West Rail Infrastructure?

Fewer fishing licenses to other nations in UK waters

UK Brexit positive. I suppose that this could be accepted, especially if you accept Smug's assertion that the remaining fish are happy fish. Not so much of an advantage if the British fish and shellfish can't be sold

Fewer UK exports to the EU, UK Brexit positive
????? So now it's a benefit that UK exports are reduced?

UK population growth slowing - OK its not an actual reduction in the number of people in the Country, but still UK Brexit positive

I hope you don't need anyone to care for you in your old age Or expect a state pension, given that our pension structure is based on the current tax payers

This is an anti UK story. It should be a pro-UK one
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58469238

UK investment in nuclear, overlooked for decades. This is an anti UK story, it should be a positive.
The coal powered story is a negative story. It's not something our young people will thank us for. On nuclear, I happen to agree that it's something we should be investing in (and I know not everyone does).

However, it's nothing to do with the EU You do realise what proportion of power that France generates is nuclear?

PM used public transport to return to London from a hospital visit the other day, that should be a positive story, yet it isnt?
No - he used public transport because he's a coward to avoid being back in Parliament in time to participate in the Standards Debate a trip that neither the press Corps or his own cabinet ministers seem to have known about which suggests he used it to runaway And funnily enough, he was able to force himself to thole taking a private jet down from Glasgow in order to get to a private, Men's only Dinner at the Garrick Club exactly a week before following which the government supported the amendment to get Paterson off the hook

UK vaccine provision around the world should be a major pro UK story, nothing reported. UK taxpayers have paid for this. BBC says nothing positive.

You mean this story on the BBC ?

"UK to donate more than 100m surplus vaccine doses, says PM" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57436535

So report on what those who voted for Brexit want from Brexit
but there are many and varied reasons why people voted for their version of what Brexit would be, only to discover that they didn't get the Brexit they expected - citing some/many Fishermen from Cornwall to the Highlands via the East Coast of England in evidence. Or some/many land owning Farmers. Or, in due course, racists.

Levelling up - promises, any actually delivered? Think Wales have a bit of a deficit issue between what the UK govt is planning to spend as against what they previously received via EU funding. So more 'levelling down' in that we all get somewhat less?

Fewer fishing licenses issued - are there? what is your evidence?

Fewer UK exports to the EU - a positive? How is this a positive?

How is a reduction in UK population a Brexit positive? If you said some of those EU people have left permanently, whilst I may not agree, that would possibly be seen as a Brexit positive for those who voted for it, until they need care, or cheaper, or any UK grown veg or butchered meat, or experienced, timely medical care.

So possibly some positives but I don't see many Brexit voters citing these as the Brexit they voted for.

@DuncinToffee

So QT doen't count, what about R4 Today? That features plenty of brexiteers.

They may be the wrong kind of Brexiteers?

@LouiseCollins28

Oh for gods sake. First and most important, Brexit was voted FOR, maybe the Beeb should try reporting what the people who've voted for it want, they haven't.

Levelling up funds - nothing positive
Fewer fishing liscenses to other nations in UK waters - UK Brexit positive.
Fewer UK exports to the EU, UK Brexit positive
UK population growth slowing - OK its not an actual reduction in the number of people in the Country, but still UK Brexit positive

This is an anti UK story. It should be a pro-UK one
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58469238

UK investment in nuclear, overlooked for decades. This is an anti UK story, it should be a positive.

PM used public transport to return to London from a hospital visit the other day, that should be a positive story, yet it isnt?

UK vaccine provision around the world should be a major pro UK story, nothing reported. UK taxpayers have paid for this. BBC says nothing positive.

You could add to your list that there has been a massive reduction in the number of EU students coming here to study at our universities, and now those that do often have to pay more.

This is clearly a Brexit bonus.

I just don't know why the BBC have not led with that as headline news yet this week.

Levelling up funds - nothing positive

Understatement of the year. "Cornwall may only get a maximum of £3million of cash from the Government to directly replace the £100m it could have been eligible for if the UK had remained in the EU"...

I'm afraid it appears that Louise has finally broken down and joined the raving loony wing of the Brexshit party...

Re vaccines: No Prettybird I don't actually.

I mean that the AZ vaccine developed with UK taxpayers money has been offered at cost, worldwide. UK taxpayers are paying for a portion of every AZ jab that goes in every arm. I couldn't be more delighted that my tax £ are paying for this to happen, so why the silence from the BBC?

only to discover that they didn't get the Brexit they expected

If they expected Johnson to deliver on his Great Deal, which I think is what he promised, they were unwise at best. They only need to look at the man's track record. Johnson is not a man of his word.

@pollyannaperspective

So report on what those who voted for Brexit want from Brexit but there are many and varied reasons why people voted for their version of what Brexit would be, only to discover that they didn't get the Brexit they expected - citing some/many Fishermen from Cornwall to the Highlands via the East Coast of England in evidence. Or some/many land owning Farmers. Or, in due course, racists.

Levelling up - promises, any actually delivered? Think Wales have a bit of a deficit issue between what the UK govt is planning to spend as against what they previously received via EU funding. So more 'levelling down' in that we all get somewhat less?

Fewer fishing licenses issued - are there? what is your evidence?

Fewer UK exports to the EU - a positive? How is this a positive?

How is a reduction in UK population a Brexit positive? If you said some of those EU people have left permanently, whilst I may not agree, that would possibly be seen as a Brexit positive for those who voted for it, until they need care, or cheaper, or any UK grown veg or butchered meat, or experienced, timely medical care.

So possibly some positives but I don't see many Brexit voters citing these as the Brexit they voted for.

Particlarly relevant ATM.

The WORLD population is too big. The absolute best thing for combatting climate change and future human survival on this planet is that the population falls. To quote Jurassic Park, "these creatures require our absence to survive, not our help" so it goes for the world population. UK Pop falling is a positive.

Indeed, I don't either. More university places for UK students is good. Granted there should be fewer universities period, but we can't have everything at once I guess.

@LouiseCollins

If people leave the UK because of Brexit, surely the world population stays the same, just slightly spatially rearranged?

It doesn't solve the problem at all.

PS - the problem isn't over-population, it's over-consumption by the rich, reliance on fossil fuels, dietary choices that are not earth friendly, agricultural economics that are geared toward profit, not rational food production, and misuse of water resources that are killing us.

@LarryTheLurker, why would the EU consider negotiation on any issue with a government which simply tears up previous negotiated agreements it signed?

@LouiseCollins28

Indeed, I don't either. More university places for UK students is good. Granted there should be fewer universities period, but we can't have everything at once I guess.

The lack of EU students means there are more university places for Chinese students, not UK students.

If "our bit" of the world has fewer people in it, it is more likely to be able so sustain itself and survive. The problem is overpopulation, be in no doubt about that. Over consumption of resources is unquestionably a huge problem this is why what is needed is...

Air travel, for pleasure, should end immediately until it is be zero carb
Waste of water e.g. domestic gardens should be a criminal offence
Food production should be domesticated where possible
UK Farming needs to be re-geared around sustainability not production
Huge investment in UK Nuclear to end dependence on foreign energy
WFH should become the norm where possible
UK rail priority should be given over to freight transit. UK businesses using diesel lorries should be so massively fined that it becomes uneconomic for them continue
UK transition to commercial electric vehicles should be accelarated massively.
ULEZ for private cars should end in London, but stay for commercial vehicles. Similar schemes should be introduced UK wide for commercial traffic.

Commercial/pleasure traffic by fossil fuel vehicles on the road needs to end, now! Not in 2040, Now!

Louisecollins You are coming across quite deranged in case you were wondering.

If Brexit is so bloody marvellous why are you so desperate for positive spin? it shouldn't be necessary.

And just because a lot of people voted for something, it does not mean the people who voted against it are not entitled to point out the idiocy and flaws of it.

You won (and we 've all lost, especially my kids) get over it.

As someone with a fair number of AZ shares (from when I used to work for ICI) I have enjoyed the signicant increase in value of AZ shares - so I'm happy that the development of the vaccine has benefitted me personally not that I'm planning on selling the shares but I enjoy the dividends . And it wasn't just the UK Government (and by extension tax payers) who paid for the research. Other governments - including the European Commission - paid towards it The UK Government might have been the largest single contributor - but it was still less than 50% of the total. Research is not a single year event - it's an ongoing investment.

Funnily enough BJ doesn't seem to share in your belief that it was the UK taxpayer who achieved this though: he thought that it was pure capitalism and greed

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021/apr/15/oxfordastrazeneca-covid-vaccine-research-was-97-publicly-funded

And you do realise that AZ has reserved the right to start selling at a profit once it deems the pandemic is over? (BTW: selling at cost doesn't mean selling at a loss )

This (BBC ) article gives a bit more a nuanced view (and a different analysis of public v private funding). But essentially long term Pharma - including AZ - expects to make a profit from vaccinations. And it suggests that governments (not just the UK) should consider funding vaccine research in the same way it looks on defence spending.

Covid vaccines: Will drug companies make bumper profits? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55170756

If Johnson and Rees-Mogg and Co had not tried to bend the rules for Paterson, it would have blown over, and we would not have heard of the following:

Ex Tory Party Treasurers buying being given places in the Lords despite in some cases making virtually no contribution, certainly not bringing their expertise to bear if they never opened their mouths. The article sadly doesn't say how they voted - but if always with the Government that tells its own Story.

Then we have Geoffrey Cox's real job. Being an MP appears to be a sideline for him.

Or then Anna Soubry is not happy either, stating that she is being blocked from being interviewed for public sector roles for which she feels eminently qualified. But it seems she is not wrong with it happening in the Arts too.

So the Paterson debacle appears to have offered an invitation for certain parts of the Press to start digging. When is the next Private Eye due out? They are usually pretty good at this sort of thing.

Louise anyone can have a pie in the sky wishlist.

Things are grinding to a halt in real life, and international relations are at an all time low. Optimism only gets you so far.

So are you now saying, Louise, that the falling UK population is a success because world population must be reduced but the UK position is a positive outcome from Brexit? I can't see the link. The EU migrants that have left still exist within the world, thankfully. The total numbers in the Western World will be broadly the same. Our total 'first world' consumption will remain the same.
Yes - we do need, altogether/working together across countries/continents, to make wiser decisions about our consumption. But I don't see how Brexit is achieving that for the UK.

Peregrina Agree re Paterson, stupidiity on the part of of Conservative party in the Commons.

Re AZ so they should be selling at a profit after COVID. they have made the vacciene. They are a private company, why on earth should they not be able to sell it in normal times? If you want UK taxpayers to benefit, incentivise them to buy the shares.

I know that sellling at cost doesn't mean at a loss. Why the hell would anyone want the UK taxpayer to lose money?!

Fuck Anna Soubry frankly, she joined the morons of Change UK, she is owed nothing at all, by anyone.

Oh Jesus wept! The lack of self awareness of these Brexshit loons is beyond absurd!

"David C Bannerman
@DCBMEP
Picking a trade war with their largest single trading partner would not be the smartest move by the EU."

God do they even do counting??

I am afraid that I laughed out loud at much of this.
Air travel, for pleasure, should end immediately until it is be zero carb

I think you will find that it's Business Travel which needs looking at. At least the Pandemic has taught us that many meetings can be held via Zoom, Teams etc. That so many business jollies are just that.

Waste of water e.g. domestic gardens should be a criminal offence

Or indeed, companies like Thames Water should be made to sort out their aging leaky pipes before they pay out dividends, which would have far more effect than chasing some householders for using too much water on their gardens

Food production should be domesticated where possible
So we have had Truss crowing about her Trade deals with Australia and NZ which is most likely to damage UK farming. Unless we can't breed sheep here, but I am pretty sure we can.

UK Farming needs to be re-geared around sustainability not production
Huge investment in UK Nuclear to end dependence on foreign energy
WFH should become the norm where possible
Nothing was stopping us from doing that.

UK rail priority should be given over to freight transit.
Hey ho, we could have increased capacity in the South East by building a freight line, but instead we have HS2. We could complete the electrification of UK railways, but there appears to be no appetite for this. We could improve the Trans Pennine route, but again, promises are made but not kept as far as this goes.

UK businesses using diesel lorries should be so massively fined that it becomes uneconomic for them continue

Or we could have invested in the railways ( see previous paragraph) and put much more freight on them, but the road haulage industry was more powerful.

I will stop there. We could have been doing this years ago. Similarly we could have been investing in the NHS and building those 40 hospitals or training up those 50,000 nurses and midwives, but the choice was not to do that.