Brexit Megathread Part 3: COP26 and beyond. The Empire is no more.

[prettybird]

The old thread is nearly full so as COP26 is in my home town, I thought I'd start the next one.

I'm not expecting anything wonderful from COP26. The selfishness that is Brexit will extend to the rich nations - or rather corporations, countries and cronies - not wanting to do anything that might actually cost them money or hurt their profits and having made their money on the back of the resources of the poorer nations (in some cases quite literally ), they'll expect them to pay the price for the riches of the West.

The deliberate mistranslation of France's letter to the EU will distract from real issues - but that's ok for BJ as he can then blame the perfidious French.

Nothing changes.

Citing Question Time is a joke

goalpost change duly noted.

Reminds me of Stewart Lee noting that critics blasted him and other comics for "not doing stuff about Islam". So he gives a brilliantly observed humorous riff on Islam which is funny, balanced, and true.

Not like that Stew. Not where you have to know anything. We meant make fun of their hats

Mind you, these days, arguing with "Christians" can be just as stupid as most of them don't know the fucking bible they are supposed to believe in.

For the hard of thinking, ahem , the Brexit vote was over 5 years ago, democracy did not freeze in aspic on the day of the vote, and change is a cornerstone of democracy.

Especially when people were sold fillet steak and received a turd in a broken box.

Speaking of Farage

www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/rugby-club-forced-to-cancel-farage-event-after-members-cut-up-season-tickets-300514/

Citing QT is not a joke. What is particularly significant is that pro-Brexit MEPs were invited on a huge amount - it wasn't just Farage - there was Daniel Hannan as well, and audiences believed that they were hearing the truth about the EU. If the programme was to be properly balanced we should have been hearing from Molly Scott Cato, Seb Dance, Richard Corbett - any number of pro EU MEPS. We didn't.

Not a goalpost change at all, a BBC programme or a piece on their website I asked for please.

A pro Brexit edition of QT has never been made or broadcast. As I said, Farage has been on it loads, but always in a minority of pro Leave voices.

He hasn't always been in a minority, especially when you consider the audiences as well. It wasn't just after Brexit that they were specially selected - google Alison Fuller Pedley and reprimand - the audience selector was recruiting from very right-wing groups for years.

Another pro-Brexit story not (yet) reported by the BBC.

Onions investment
in New Zealand
courtesy of the tariff cut for NZ onion imports to the UK that our 'Global Britain'/free of the EU yoke' status enabled Ms Truss (her again - busy woman) to negotiate in to the FTA with New Zealand
to the detriment of UK domestic onion farmers, potentially.

Thanks to an Emily Thornberry tweet alerting me to the pro- Brexit initiative.

I'm going to stop now and await a pro-Brexit news story contribution from Louise.

@liliainterfrutices

Citing QT is not a joke. What is particularly significant is that pro-Brexit MEPs were invited on a huge amount - it wasn't just Farage - there was Daniel Hannan as well, and audiences believed that they were hearing the truth about the EU. If the programme was to be properly balanced we should have been hearing from Molly Scott Cato, Seb Dance, Richard Corbett - any number of pro EU MEPS. We didn't.

Agree totally, QTs use of MEPs was terrible generally. I don't remember them doing MEP specials but they should have. Hannan, to his credit was at least giving a POV on the EU and European Parliament, other MEPs, what on earth happened to them?

TBH I think the 3 you cited were mostly an utter waste of space, Corbett particularly, but they could have had their views on BBC progs and never got further than Politics Live usually.

@liliainterfrutices

He hasn't always been in a minority, especially when you consider the audiences as well. It wasn't just after Brexit that they were specially selected - google Alison Fuller Pedley and reprimand - the audience selector was recruiting from very right-wing groups for years.

If you have 5 contributors to a show and 1 major issue that divides the country almost 50/50 you'd expect that if it has to be 3/2 one way or the other then at least some times it would be 3/2 in favour of leave. I'd be struggling to remember 1 QT where this happened, almost alway minimum 3/2 remain.

Looking at the Wikipedia list of 2016 programme panellists there were many weeks where there was a balanced panel 2 for and 2 anti leaving the EU.
Maybe take a look Louise for the facts rather than your impression.

My memories are of several QTs where it was 3 Leave to 2 Remain, but I stopped watching it quite a while ago, as I find it too biassed and depressing. I included converts to Leave amongst those who were originally Remainers, such as Liz Truss, so it may depend on how we perceive people like that. I think these days she's a total Leaver.

wewereliars "Especially when people were sold fillet steak and received a turd in a broken box."

Well our rivers are certainly full of turds.

Anyone prefer that the busy Ms Truss cast her mind and 'woman of action' persona to addressing the detention of Nazanin Zaghari Ratcliffe and relieving her husband from is hunger strike Day 17?

Not a goalpost change at all, a BBC programme or a piece on their website I asked for please.

What part of Question Time excludes it from being "a BBC programme" ?

Anyway, my Damascene moment was a Saturday morning pair of interviews back to back on R4 with Jon Humphries, and Nigel Farage (they may have been in the bath together, there was certainly a lot of soft soap around) immediately followed by Tony Blair who was suggesting a second referendum. I'm not so callow I can't hear aggression. And you can tell how bad it was because although I really haven't time to discuss why I think Tony Blair is arguably even worse than Boris Johnson, I had to admit I was in awe of his patience.

Anyway, most of the people writing in this thread are immaterial to how Brexit ultimately turns out. We'll have to wait for our (in my case, as yet unborn) grandchildren to tell us.

I guess it's good there's no heaven. Imagine being cross when you got there ?

@pollyannaperspective

Anyone prefer that the busy Ms Truss cast her mind and 'woman of action' persona to addressing the detention of Nazanin Zaghari Ratcliffe and relieving her husband from is hunger strike Day 17?

Yes

@pollyannaperspective

Anyone prefer that the busy Ms Truss cast her mind and 'woman of action' persona to addressing the detention of Nazanin Zaghari Ratcliffe and relieving her husband from is hunger strike Day 17?

Absolutely. Especially as all her jetting round the world doing trade deals has only resulted in deals worth less than 50p per person to the UK. I'd love to see Nazanin home for Christmas.

Anyone else think Louise's account has been hacked? She never used to be so detached from reality.

@pollyannaperspective

Anyone prefer that the busy Ms Truss cast her mind and 'woman of action' persona to addressing the detention of Nazanin Zaghari Ratcliffe and relieving her husband from is hunger strike Day 17?

You mean undo the damage her boss did ? Not easy.

Although it seems the Iranians are much more offended by Boris saying he'd pay whatever the UK is supposed to owe and then reneging on that, rather than anything he said about NZR directly. I'm guessing they really aren't going to let someone like Boris Johnson make them look weak.

Which does leave the option of a kindly benefactor paying the UKs debt which might lead to NZRs freedom. As long as it was done publically.

Yes Pollyannaperspective, it's absolutely desperate that he has to resort to these measures.

We owe Iran the money, and Johnson stated rubbish in the commons as Home Secretary which made Nazanain's situation worse, and no doubt added to her sentence. He has never even apologised.

This government, and Johnson in particular, are a bunch of incompetent socipaths.

We owe Iran the money, and Johnson stated rubbish in the commons as Home Secretary which made Nazanain's situation worse, and no doubt added to her sentence. He has never even apologised.

However her husband (who I'm guessing has some inside knowledge of the matter) said that his understanding was that wasn't the problem here ... it's Boris failing to deliver on his promise of paying this debt.

It would be difficult to find stories on any worldwide media websites extolling the virtues of Brexit. Most seem to be gobsmacked that the UK has self-harmed itself to such an extent. There my have been one or two from Aus or NZ saying what a good deal any trade agreement would be for them, but not for the UK.
At the same time, we note the ongoing lack of a US/UK trade deal, and significant cosying up between the US and EU.

Gaaaa - just written 2 long posts that got eaten 

@LouiseCollins28 - remind me again how many pro-EU UK MEPs have appeared on QT and how many anti-EU UK MEPs? Clue: zero to c50 (including 23 by Farage alone) over a 9 year period (up to July 2019)

The BBC can't make up positive stories if there aren't any to report . They do however report neutrally the UK's "wonderful trade deals" on the other side of the world, like the recent one with NZ. It's only a long way down the article (by which time most people except Geeks have stopped reading) that it mentions its negligible effect on UK GDP and the concerns of UK farmers (which are then only elaborated "off the beaten track" on the BBC, such as the NI or Wales topics or on Farming Today)

UK agrees free trade deal with New Zealand https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58988711

Elsewhere (ie not on the BBC) the trade deal is described as adding between 0.1% and minus 0.1% to UK GDP (a reminder: these are the Government's own economic assessments).

The BBC can't make a silk's purse out of a sow's ear if there are no benefits to report (I could point out Gove's gaff re pigs ears and China )

If Brexiters like you still can't come up with a single quantifiable benefit, then why the fuck should the BBC be "blamed" for not having presented these non-existent benefits?

At the same time, we note the ongoing lack of a US/UK trade deal, and significant cosying up between the US and EU.

The US can get all it wants from the UK without a trade deal. So go figure.

The only thing the UK has that is of value to most countries now, is loads and loads of room for immigrants.

I was vaguely thinking that really, if the world was honest (so file under "never gonna happen") then rather than thrash out trade deals, countries should thrash out population deals. Because really that's what's happening under the hood anyway.

It'll be interesting to see how deep the media can bury the news of any deal with India, when they twig it gives them almost unlimited entry to the UK (with Pakistan following).

Yes DGR, I'm sure that's right, but I think most people who had made the gaffe Johnson did would have quickly corrected and apologised for saying she was training journalists, when that was at the heart of what she was being accused of and has always vehemently denied. .

Oh for gods sake.
First and most important, Brexit was voted FOR, maybe the Beeb should try reporting what the people who've voted for it want, they haven't.

Levelling up funds - nothing positive
Fewer fishing liscenses to other nations in UK waters - UK Brexit positive.
Fewer UK exports to the EU, UK Brexit positive
UK population growth slowing - OK its not an actual reduction in the number of people in the Country, but still UK Brexit positive

This is an anti UK story. It should be a pro-UK one
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58469238

UK investment in nuclear, overlooked for decades. This is an anti UK story, it should be a positive.

PM used public transport to return to London from a hospital visit the other day, that should be a positive story, yet it isnt?

UK vaccine provision around the world should be a major pro UK story, nothing reported. UK taxpayers have paid for this. BBC says nothing positive.