Westminstenders: Put Your Faith In The Home Office

[pointythings]

Because there doesn't seem to be a new thread yet. I'm no RTB or any of you other experts, but these threads need to keep going.

Give me a couple weeks and I'll be able to post cat placemarks!

As Hannibal said its rather a bold statement and it is, but with some basis I aver; and the alternative under the pre-Brexit/CV19 conditions were just 'more of the same'.

And as The Stranglers quite rightly sung:

Seems things haven't changed enough yet after all these years

I still swoon when I see JJ Burnel.....that will never change.

@HannibalHayeski

More travel turmoil.

The testing firms on the government's list for 2 and 8 day testing don't provide tests, and cost twice as much as they say according to Which?...

I wonder how much they donated to the Tory party...

A friend's husband travels for work. His (paid for) test never arrived. He got back home without having to have proof luckily. A week later he's at his desk. Gets text notice telling him the test he never took came back negative. Phew what a relief for him.

@TheHateIsNotGood

As Hannibal said its rather a bold statement and it is, but with some basis I aver; and the alternative under the pre-Brexit/CV19 conditions were just 'more of the same'.

And as The Stranglers quite rightly sung:

Seems things haven't changed enough yet after all these years

And yet...

Still not a shred of evidence.

It's a very Brexshit argument. No facts, but it's all about the feelz...

I'll grant you its early days so who knows?
However, if you want changes in working conditions, wages, that reduces/removes reliance on working benefits then A: that has to be implemented by govt and B: the same people are in power who were before brexit and they didn't do anything about it then.......

Current evidence seems to indicate they won't do anything now either e.g. reduced the increase in minimum wage and haven't restored the nursing bursary, relying instead to recruit from developing countries instead - completely immoral imho.

Anyone see Bojo speech on Building back better at G7? was he pissed or nerves?

Anyone see Bojo speech on Building back better at G7? was he pissed or nerves?

Either one, both, or a completely justified case of imposter syndrome.

Someone on one of my facebook pages said that it's a not too well hidden secret that BoJo has a serious drink problem. If so, it will become more and more apparent, or else he will go off on what looks like another jolly, but in fact is to a clinic to dry out.

Not that I would dream of spreading scurrilous rumours about him.

Nerves, I imagine. Being around actually clever people. I also suspect he is shit scared of the Queen because she's wiped more useful pieces of shit off her shoe.

And the Queen, the UK's real First Lady, was in attendance, which stopped BoJo trotting out Carrie, to pretend to be the same.

Ah, more Brexshit bonuses.

UK steel industry fury as government looks to drop EU import restrictions

Where are the Leavers who used to populate these threads who declared that being free of the EU would allow us to raise standards? So far all the evidence we have seen is either to lower standards, or in a few cases, to continue with EU standards.

I will be prepared to admit that I am wrong, if a Leaver can post a cast iron example.

Tumbleweed

.

Evening all - you must all know by now that I'm not a great provider of links - not because I don't know how, just I don't want to as I think it detracts from discussion (and a bit boring tbh).

As far as finding a Brexiteer who still believes some standards might rise, here I am and thankfully these threads have moved on since completely eviscerating any poster who dared to say such a thing.

Working Standards for the Low Paid will rise within 2-5 years I think. It's already in the same Evidence that many have used to state that EU migrants are/were nett contributors to the UK economy look, down at the bottom of most Evidence and it always finds that there is a negative impact on the lowest paid Workers.

Agricultural and Aviation Standards - UK Standards have been one of the highest for quite some time and dragged up many EU Countries lesser Standards because of it's membership.

Fur Farming? Is there any Evidence that some Standards have declined due to Brexit? Notwithstanding NI and UK Sausages which is a current (ridiculous) situation that could be resolved by Common Sense, not by any Common/Single Market 'senselessness'.

Not sure why some are asking for Evidence of something that has only just started evolving and 'feelz' shouldn't be so easily dismissed as irrelevant; many a Research Hypothesis started with a 'feeling' and it's like disregarding Qualiative Research in favour of Quantitive Research - pretty much Research 101 innit.

None of these are fact. Why do I ask? The Brexiters promised us that it was all going to be beneficial right from the off. Not well it might get better some time in the future.

More feelz. Literally zero evidence to back it up, not even a hint of it. It's all wishful thinking, asserted as fact.

It's way way off the bullshitometer...

At last some positive news:

www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/six-actual-real-genuine-upsides-to-brexit-20210611209091

Yes, wishful thinking, completely counter to everything we understand in economics, and meanwhile, the poor are going to get shafted everywhere thanks to covid.
www.cnn.com/2021/06/09/business/rising-prices-inventories-post-pandemic/index.html?utm_source=pocket-newtab

The trouble with changing the status quo, requiring business to pay a living wage, and to maintain standards in manufacturing and food processing when to do so means the product will be less profitable, is that that's not how business sees things, thinks, or operates.

Right now, UK business has it easy - they pay lower wages than they should, and government (i.e. the taxpayer) makes up the slack in various welfare schemes. As with Walmart in the US, whose employees are frequently on food stamps paid for by ordinary taxpayers, whose trucks ply the highways provided by the states. It's theft on a grand scale, the public coffers subsidising the private wealth.

If proposals are afoot to change T&Cs, to raise wages, to maintain standards, I can foresee Business kicking back hard.

"The trouble with changing the status quo, requiring business to pay a living wage, and to maintain standards in manufacturing and food processing when to do so means the product will be less profitable, is that that's not how business sees things, thinks, or operates."

Except when business operates in the EU where regulation keeps it honest and recourse to the ECJ and ECHR is possible.

More Brexshit benefits.

Not trying to sugar coat it, or blaming Covid, or everything else that you see Brexshittiers constantly doing.

Stark cost of Brexit to Scotch whisky firms outlined in Commons

Facts is a rather overused word, given that many belief-structures have already generated their own Facts; not least that Facts evolve and get added to, altered, disputed, etc - not only in terms of Brexit - you can apply that to most "Facts".

Other than potential extrapolations, etc, often masquerading as "fact", does anyone actually have any Facts regarding the impact of Brexit in the next 2-5 years?

There's only one true answer to that question - no one does as the next 2-5 years haven't happened yet.

And maths I agree, 'Business' will kick back hard against improved Worker's T&Cs, and then they'll find they're kicking a brick wall and better change or they'll break their feet. Hence I suggest give it 2 years before we see any tangible improvements and 5 years for the improvements to become embedded changes.

Belief structures do not and can never generate facts. A fact is a fact or it is not. Opiinon and fact are not interchangeable.

You sound as though you are rambling, HateIs. Some things in life are most definitely 'fact'. Start with the date of someone's birth.

Does anyone have any 'Facts' regarding Brexit - over to you, the benefits should now be apparent. There should be a long list of better trade deals signed, the fishermen should be happy with what Johnson negotiated, the farmers should not be worried about a deal about to be signed. There should be absolutely no question of the Good Friday Agreement being compromised. That BTW is something which is Fact, represented by an international treaty written down, although its proper name is the Belfast Agreement, with signatures traceable to real people on the document.

But not apropos of this - tomorrow is Sunday. Will BoJo and Carrie be taking the Bidens to the nearest Catholic Church for Mass?

It would be wonderful to be there and have it made plain for all to see that the Bidens genuinely practice their religion, whereas the Johnson's will be muttering and fumbling, not knowing when to cross themselves or kneel.

Johnsons sorry, rogue apostrophe there.