Westminstenders: Put Your Faith In The Home Office

[pointythings]

Because there doesn't seem to be a new thread yet. I'm no RTB or any of you other experts, but these threads need to keep going.

Give me a couple weeks and I'll be able to post cat placemarks!

They voted for Brexit in hopes that it would destroy the GFA, and it may well do that yet.

They are idiots with their backs to the wall, and a long history of taking to the streets to create the impression that they should be taken seriously. Unfortunately for everyone on the island of Ireland, that ploy has worked in Westminster almost every single time they have used it.

The exceptions resulted in the GFA and relative peace, but that isn't what they want. Their culture and ethos are profoundly backward looking, and do not see compromise as a reasonable approach. They want nothing to do with the power sharing and the consultation with Dublin that come with the GFA. Peace as it was enforced by the B Specials is what they are comfortable with.

They have only one policy - union with Britain. Nothing else matters to them. They do not care about the economy of NI. They do not care about the wellbeing of the left behind Loyalist communities of Belfast. They do not care if they drag NI down in flames. The hill they are fully prepared to sacrifice the future of NI for is the union.

Newsnight reporting that Biden/Officials is going to tell Bojo he is messing with peace in NI and publicly too.

We'll see but that would be a turn up for the books.

I hope Biden does speak out. It needs someone to knock some sense into Bojo and Frost.

Re the DUP - they might regard themselves as British, but I think it's fair to say that most English Britons don't agree with them. As I said - they mostly don't give a shit about them. I can't speak for those in Scotland and Wales.

Legal action
Arbitration
Retribution

I hope I have remembered that last word wrongly...

It’s not just Biden and the Democrats. The Congressional Friends of the Irish National Caucus is a (not very, but somewhat) bipartisan group. And Congress votes through trade deals.
www.irishnationalcaucus.org/congressional-friends-116th-congress-2019-2021/

Thanks @redtoothbrush for everything over the last 5 years. We’ve all been on a turbulent journey and I’ve learnt a lot from the threads in that time.

The Brexit fight is the past now, but the consequences aren’t. We’ll have to live with that for a long time. I still haven’t seen any tangible benefits, but I agree - time to move on. The Brexit mindset has seeped into other issues as well. We need to keep our eyes on the ball. Unfortunately we’re poorly served by our politicians at a time of crisis. Perhaps people will tire of being lied to, and being gaslit to vote for what’s not in their interests.

I hope that COVID will teach us that we can’t succeed as singular, competing nations and that co-operation is the only way to defeat global issues such as the climate crisis. Collaboration must become the way. Perhaps we’ll end up by joining a club of like-minded nations?

When all this is history, I do believe younger people will look back and ask why on Earth we did this, and what many voted to lose. But there you are, it’s done. And I do feel sadness about what is happening in this country.

I’ll continue to follow the threads as I value the views of many posters. It’s like looking through a window into other people’s realities - and that’s what we all need to do. And I hope Red will share her knowledge again sometimes. Thankyou all.

Here is the very first Westministenders thread, from just after the referendum. Some very prescient posting there.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2670552-Has-Boris-been-outmanoeuvred

'America should remember who their allies are': Brexiteers blast 'senile' Joe Biden after he issues astonishing rebuke to Boris Johnson for 'inflaming tensions' in Northern Ireland in 'sausage war' spat with EU"

Headline of The Daily Mail (No I don't read it ). I mean what a welcome for Joe Biden to be denounced as "senile" by that Brexiteer right wing rag.

I hadn't found the threads then, although I see Red was an early contributor.

Perhaps we’ll end up by joining a club of like-minded nations?

One of the problems is that we have differing ideas of like-minded nations. For many Brexiters it's the 'Anglosphere' which is the White Commonwealth and the USA. For some it's harking back to Empire and for others its the individualism of the USA, and wanting to be on their coat tails.

With the Commonwealth, Johnson with his 'smiling piccaninnies with watermelon smiles' gave a clue as to what he thought of the black members of the Commonwealth.

Taking the 'Special relationship' with the USA it's because of a shared language and supposedly common history. This last I most definitely query - we have a much greater shared history will all the countries of W Europe: France, Germany, Netherlands, Denmark, albeit in the guises of the Normans, the Vikings, the various Wars with Spain, Holy Roman Empire etc., but this all gets overlooked.

However, Johnson went and expressed a truth about the Special Relationship - he doesn't like it because it makes the UK seem needy - well he is spot on there, it does, because it is.

But it's going to take more than his bombast to make the UK a global power again, and so far, they have gone about it the wrong way.

The post immediately above mine confirms this outlook.

I do agree with you about like-minded nations, Peregrina. However I think that in a few years, many countries will be ‘like-minded’ if they share the intent, will and resources to attempt to protect the planet so that we can still live on it.
Everything else will begin to seem irrelevant.

Also, I think that once the Queen dies many Commonwealth countries will further evaluate their relationship with the UK. I can't really see Charles or William holding it together. I foresee more attempts by e.g. the African members to develop the relationships with their neighbouring countries.

Just gone a bit further down under the photos. In block capitals :

"BUTT OUT BIDEN"

This augurs well for the "special relationship" and potential trade deals!

Hmm, sounds like Suez all over again - the USA told the UK and France exactly where to get off.

Hmm so we’ve fallen out with everyone in Europe, and now in the process of falling out with the US. Yay, go us!

Almost time for lunch. Slice of British English exceptionalism anyone?

Hilarious!
Should VP Harris ever take over, she will make Biden look like Johnsons BFF.

Oh to see the DM's headlines!

On Common Wealth countries, many of the African countries are heavily involved with China.
India is at loggerheads with China, difficult side to pick there....

The idea of the UK telling the US 'Don't You Know Who We Are' is hysterically funny. Also sad.

@Peregrina

Hmm, sounds like Suez all over again - the USA told the UK and France exactly where to get off.

But France actually learned from that. Unlike Britain.

I note with interest that The Boris penis-extension of the £200 million yacht is going to get snagged in the UKs rush to give up it's sovereignty to the WTO

www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/06/08/british-shipyards-risk-missing-building-new-200m-royal-yacht/

www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1446988/brexit-news-boris-johnson-wto-rule-trade-ship-building-liz-truss-emily-thornberry

Also I note that the EU has it's own seat at the G7 - so two bites of the cherry for France, Italy and Germany ..

Curiously the UK didn't throw a strop like it did with the idea of an EU ambassador to the UK. I wonder why ?

Daily Mail latest :

"Joe Biden backs down: White House desperately rows back from claims president rebuked Boris Johnson for 'inflaming tensions' in Northern Ireland over EU trade dispute - as furious Brexiteers brand US leader 'senile'"
Well I hope he doesn't back down too much if that is true!

Thanks for all the threads Red.

Peregrina's "like minded nations" posts are most interesting. Agree on the challenges posed by the Commonwealth "post Queen".

Good to see you "back" LouiseCollins28

thanks prettybird I've missed an absolute shedload on here but I'm sure I'll pick it where things have got to.

It seems I was not alone when I thought of Suez

My earliest political memory is hearing my parents talking about Suez and being desperately anxious that there wouldn't be another war.

@Peregrina

It seems I was not alone when I thought of Suez

My earliest political memory is hearing my parents talking about Suez and being desperately anxious that there wouldn't be another war.

It's hard to avoid the feeling that ardent Brexiteers actively want another war. Any war. Any where.