Westminstenders: Put Your Faith In The Home Office

[pointythings]

Because there doesn't seem to be a new thread yet. I'm no RTB or any of you other experts, but these threads need to keep going.

Give me a couple weeks and I'll be able to post cat placemarks!

I strongly suspect that Johnson and Frost have unleashed something they can't control in N Ireland. Not that personally either of them cares. We will find out within the next couple of days with the marching season due to start.

I saw a group of lads today in a naaaiice part of Glasgow singing sectarian songs in a car park.

I hate marching season

mathanxiety, don't be so impertinent. If you want to know what I believe sovereignty means look in a dictionary. 😉

I posted too soon. Of course we couldn't spend all of our money as we wanted when we were in the EU because we had to bankroll them. I know a lot about the regional fund because I use to be in charge of objective 1 money in one of our big cities. Waste of time.
They kindly gave us back some of our own money to spend according to their rules. Now we have ALL of our money we can ignore their stupid rules. 👍🇬🇧
We no longer have freedom of movement we have our own immigration system that will suit the UK.

@foxandcubs
"Job done."

Here we go again. If leavers say" job done" or " end of" enough times they will actually believe it. Funny how the Government is endeavouring to hire an adviser to identify post-Brexit benefits as they can't find any themselves.

Whilst Parliament has remained sovereign throughout our membership of the EU, it has not always felt like that.

....from the Government's own White Paper - unhelpfully published 7 months after the Referendum

So essentially it's all about the feelz

That about sums up the intellectual capability of those involved who fell for the mistruths being charitable and lies

foxandcubs

I'm a big fan of dictionaries.

Which one of the OED's entries (below) is it that you have in mind when you define UK subjects' newly-won sovereignty with regard to those currently holding power in the country or with regard to other states, organisations, etc.?

Supremacy or pre-eminence in respect of excellence or efficacy.

Supremacy in respect of power, domination, or rank; supreme dominion, authority, or rule.

The position, rank, or power of a supreme ruler or monarch; royal authority or dominion.

The supreme controlling power in communities not under monarchical government; absolute and independent authority.

A territory under the rule of a sovereign, or existing as an independent state.

Of course we couldn't spend all of our money as we wanted when we were in the EU because we had to bankroll them.

@foxandcubs
We had to bankroll them...
I'm just going to sit and let that statement resound for a while.

You seem very confident in your assertion, so I would like to know what you are basing it on.

I know a lot about the regional fund because I use to be in charge of objective 1 money in one of our big cities. Waste of time.
They kindly gave us back some of our own money to spend according to their rules.
The EU Regional Development Fund operates jointly with member national governments and regional authorities. The member states choose which projects to finance and day-to-day management of the projects is the responsibility of the national and regional authorities.
The UK was for many years a net gainer from the Regional Fund, by a wide margin.

ec.europa.eu/regional_policy/en/newsroom/news/2015/03/european-regional-development-fund-turns-40
A fund of 1.3 billion units of account (the forerunner of the euro) was to be established for a trial period of three years starting in 1975.
...
In 1975 the poorest areas of the EEC were southern Italy, most of Ireland, western and south-western France, northern Holland, parts of West Germany along the (then) eastern border, and large parts of the United Kingdom, particularly Wales and Scotland.

The fund was targeted at the most disadvantaged Member States and the resources divided accordingly: Belgium, 1.5 %; Denmark, 1.3 %; France, 15 %; Ireland, 6 %; Italy, 40 %; Luxembourg, 0.1 %; the Netherlands, 1.7 %; Germany, 6.4 %; the United Kingdom 28 %.

The UK's George Thompson was Regional Policy Commissioner in 1975, and expressed the hope that it would bring practical benefits to the most disadvantaged regions of Europe. In 1975, the UK received a good deal more than it paid into the Fund.

Moving on to the flabbergasting phrase their rules.
Do you understand that the UK participated in the framing of all EU Regional Fund rules (and all other rules and regulations) since it joined?
Did you know that the UK actually campaigned hard for the setting up of the Regional Development Fund, in fact making it a condition of membership?
(However, over the years, and particularly under Thatcher, UK governments tended to ignore British regions in need of development.)

Do you believe that funding an expanding market for UK goods (by contributing less than half a percent of GDP annually) and harmonising regulations within that market is a good thing or a bad thing for the British economy?

If you want to know what I believe sovereignty means look in a dictionary.

I suspect that what you believe and what a dictionary states may well be two different things.

Come on now, you are being very coy.

What do you understand by the term 'sovereignty'?

Poor angry 🐿 - we haven't had a proper one of those in aaaaages

I've missed all those incoherent, ignorant, substance-free, empty-slogan-spouting keyboard-warriors who used to brighten our days on Westministenders.

I guess the new empty slogan is "Job Done"?

mathanxiety - that's quite a lot for the average Leaver to take in. If Frost is typical, their behaviour mostly resembles a toddler having a tantrum. You would never believe that we used to help write the laws - that indeed some of the ones we are now no longer benefitting from are the ones we wrote.

As I posted earlier, I'm quite enjoying the new influx . They make it so easy to prove the point of the stupidity of Brexit as their supposedly "killer" arguments are so easily refuted

mathanxiety Don't you know it's impertinent to ask leavers a genuine question about their definition of sovereignty. In fact we remainers
apparently should never question anything any more, because it's "Job Done." End Of .

We have to allow them the point though that in Johnson's dumbed down rules for the plebs Brexit has been done.

Has it solved the NI Problems? No. But few if any Brexiters appear to give a shit about NI.
Has it facilitated trade? With the countries with which we did most trade: No. With some countries literally the other side of the world - perhaps.
Has it given us 'Sovereignty'? Er, um, what do we mean by this.
And so on.

In fact - name one prominent Brexiter who does give a shit about NI.
Maybe start with giving some of them an atlas and showing them where it is. Also give them a 10 year old's guide to the history of the UK. (Ten year old - simply enough to get the main points across, but not too complex for them to understand.)

Hoey is probably the exception that proves the rule: a Brexiter who "cares" about NI.

Only it's her Unionist version of what NI is and she doesn't give a fuck about what it does for the peace process, nor what the majority in NI (which wasn't even her constituency ) actually want.

And because of that, in her warped mind, any problems are the fault of the EU and in no way associated with what she campaigned for . Taking responsibility is not a Brexiter trait.

I had thought of Hoey, but caring only for a narrow sectarian group disqualified her in my mind. Still she can have a brownie point for knowing where it is.

Considering what Hoey comes out with, i wonder if she is in the best of health, she is 75.

Oh come on all, we can now export apples to India...

just don't mention Belgium to Liz

We're going round in circles.

But it's surprising if Brexit voters still approve the hastily-signed departure deal, when prominent Leaver politicians now complain about its holes. However, it was signed, and now we must live with it.

In this jaw-dropping clip, Jenkin, Cash and Hoare complain about the effects of the deal they voted for at Christmas, and now want special dispensations made for many groups. Jenkin worries about artists/performers moving to the EU as they can't further their careers here. And Johnson says it's due to the deal, and it'd be hard to know where to draw the line with granting special considerations to groups. Well, yes.... It's almost as if an over-arching, inclusive membership deal is a beneficial idea?

On NI issues, he says 30 drugs are no longer being exported to NI; 200 GB companies have stopped shipping there; the movement of guide dogs, potted plants, tractor parts etc. is very difficult; and of course the sausage problem. He says Jewish people there can't get Kosher food and say they may have to leave.

Apparently border technology should come to our aid. They've been saying it for years; I suppose good progress has been made on it by now?

They talk about these effects as if unrelated to the reality of Brexit. And I feel the way Johnson almost seems to be trying to fob off the questioner is disrespectful to people having problems.

'Sovereignty': how can we get more of it with this particular deal?

So Project Fear had truth? The sunlit uplands aren't very sunny?
Leave voters have a right to be angry.
'Brexit is done'... but it's really not.

twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/status/1413225809599475713

Leave voters have a right to be angry.

But they are angry with the wrong people. Instead of being angry with Johnson and Frost for negotiating a bad deal, they are angry with the EU for not pandering to our every whim. Well, they should have voted to stay in then, and we would have kept the special deals we had.

In "there will be adequate food" news;

BREAKING : Downing Street orders U.K. supermarkets to remove empty shelves to conceal food shortages...

(Yes, I know it's satire, but the point is - you would believe it!)

And here's two-faced Frosty...

It's amazing what the promise of ennoblement does to your core beliefs