Westministenders: Unilateral Ignoring of WHO rules

[RedToothBrush]

Where we are:

On 1st January the EU started to apply checks on all goods from the UK coming into the Union.

However the UK decided to take a slower route to this, and planned that on the 1st April the UK we would be carrying out Sanitary & Phytosanitary paperwork for animal and plant EU imports like meat and eggs.

Then on 1 July we'd implement a full customs check on all goods arriving into the UK from EU member states.

Obviously we've struggled with exports as we weren't ready for this and its fucked business. But ultimately the import side of things has yet to hit the shit fan still.

It sounds like there is likely to be issues with imports of food in particular, so there is talk of delaying our plan of checks until later in the day. There is concern that the reopening of pubs and restuarants which will up demands of imports occuring at the same time as checks are put in place is likely to be 'problematic'.

Remember we get 2/3 of fruit, veg and cheese from the EU. And half our wine. And to date these largely have only been affected by haulage issues NOT UK customs issues...

You might want to keep that in mind.

Peregrina..have you forgotten that the EU broke international law by imposing a hard border in NI?
Did that slip your mind?
Belgium has a much higher per capita death rate than the UK.
Did that slip your mind?
The EU are suggesting forcing AZ to break their contracts so that will break international laws.
Is this all ok because it's your beloved EU.

And dare I mention the German flag?

By all means do. No one now is allowed to fly the Nazi flag in Germany. The Japanese changed their flag post war. The hammer and sickle of the USSR has been replaced by the flag of the Russian federation, Georgia, etc.

@yellowspanner

Theelements....what on Earth is a flag shagger? Are you suggesting that the UK should not fly the Union Jack because of some nasty events a few centuries ago? Well that would rule out the Spanish and Portuguese flags because of South American atrocities. And dare I mention the German flag? Or the French in Africa? Or, indeed the Italian flag because of the Romans? Do you want to abolish national flags? Or do you just hate England?

Are you suggesting that the UK should not fly the Union Jack because of some nasty events a few centuries ago? Do you want to abolish national flags? Or do you just hate England?

The rallying cry of the prolific flag shagger

@yellowspanner

Peregrina..have you forgotten that the EU broke international law by imposing a hard border in NI? Did that slip your mind? Belgium has a much higher per capita death rate than the UK. Did that slip your mind? The EU are suggesting forcing AZ to break their contracts so that will break international laws. Is this all ok because it's your beloved EU.

Strange how it has to be the failures of the EU and not the successes of the UK that is the measure of a successful Brexit

We left the EU why do their failures concern you so much?

How unpatriotic of you smh

Peregrina..have you forgotten that the EU broke international law by imposing a hard border in NI?
Did that slip your mind?

No, because they have not done so.
Johnson wasn't prepared to sign up to May's deal, so required a border. Any border which respected the GFA could not be put on the island of Ireland. He now wants to ignore that because his Government have been too lazy or stupid to think through the implications and work to implement the infrastructure necessary.

If you want to see the GFA smashed then have the guts to say so.

The rallying cry of the prolific flag shagger

I'd like to ask a question of both prettybird and derxa because they are on opposite sides of the fence: do you think Scottish Nationalism would go away even if Sturgeon was no longer in charge?

I can remember well the time when Scottish Nationalism was Winnie Ewing and Margo McDonald and it was very much a minority interest then. To me it seemed to change with Maggie Thatcher trying out the poll tax on Scotland.

Peregrina...as I have told you before on similar threads, the GFA is silent on the issue of a border.
Try reading it.

why are unionists and brexiteers so salty all the time? Can we mine them?

Yellowspanner what international law did the EU break by imposing a hard border in Northern Ireland if as you say the GFA says nothing about it? In case you do not actually know and are not being obnoxious for the sake of it, as anyone who has read the agreement knows, any hard border between NI and the ROI breaks the sprit of the GFA which has closer alliance and diminishment of difference between NI and the ROI running through it's entirety.

@yellowspanner

Theelements....what on Earth is a flag shagger? Are you suggesting that the UK should not fly the Union Jack because of some nasty events a few centuries ago? Well that would rule out the Spanish and Portuguese flags because of South American atrocities. And dare I mention the German flag? Or the French in Africa? Or, indeed the Italian flag because of the Romans? Do you want to abolish national flags? Or do you just hate England?

Or do you just hate England?

The Union Jack or Union Flag is not the flag of England. That would be the Cross of Saint George.

You evidently equate the United Kingdom solely with England.

The United Kingdom consists of England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland - although Wales is not represented on the Union Jack. You know, just in case you needed a lesson in geopolitical history.

I have read the GFA although I suspect that you haven't.
This study discusses the role of the EU and soft borders. At the time, in case you have forgotten, there was no talk of leaving the EU by either side. Perhaps that was remiss - but then perhaps countries should try to frame laws for something which might happen 25 years hence. Should we now write clauses into English and Welsh law saying 'Assuming that the UK doesn't break up..../ if it breaks up....)

However you told us this morning yellowhammer that you liked what you saw of Johnson's Government. I recall the Government went and passed the United Kingdom Internal Market Act 2020 some clauses of which would have broken the treaty.The wrong man went and won in America, and Gove announced that the Brexit provisions would be scrapped - so although they intended to break the law then and are proposing to break the NI Protocol now you were apparently OK with this. If International treaties are not to be honoured then why should you get upset if the other side(s) break a treaty?

justanother and theelements.... so I am right.you have no argument to put forward.
You resort to name calling when your argument is hollow.
Fine.

Peregrina, I have read the GFA.
A hard border does not break the agreement.
The spirit of the agreement is a different matter altogether.
The EU broke the 'spirit' of this agreement when they stopped vaccines going into NI....as you well know.

Of course I realise the Union flag is the flag of the UK. But it seems it is only England that people on here hate.

And I am happy with what this government are doing as I have said. I am not going to list things because there are too many and I am busy.

Peregrina .....I am not upset at what the EU do. Where have I said I am?

No one now is allowed to fly the Nazi flag in Germany. The Japanese changed their flag post war. The hammer and sickle of the USSR has been replaced by the flag of the Russian federation, Georgia, etc.
Well I wonder when/if Brexit causes the break up of the UK it might be the ideal time to change our flag. I have heard the Union Jack described as the butchers apron.

@Kendodd

No one now is allowed to fly the Nazi flag in Germany. The Japanese changed their flag post war. The hammer and sickle of the USSR has been replaced by the flag of the Russian federation, Georgia, etc. Well I wonder when/if Brexit causes the break up of the UK it might be the ideal time to change our flag. I have heard the Union Jack described as the butchers apron.

Depending on who leaves, of course.

There's a variety of suggestions from 2013, for possible flags if Scotland left, here www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25205017

As far as I recall the EU did not stop vaccines going into NI. They behaved stupidly I can grant.

I am not upset at what the EU do. Where have I said I am?

I don't recall asking you this. I asked you whether you were happy with a Government which was willing to break an International Treaty , and whether you then found that this made it acceptable for all parties to Treaties to decide to ignore them. Which you are 'too busy' to answer, when a simple yes/no would be enough.

You also apparently thought that we had a presidential system in this country because you rather patronisingly told me that we had elected Johnson as PM, did I notice. You had no answer to my statement that Johnson could be ditched tomorrow.

I am not going to list things because there are too many and I am busy.
Made me laugh. Typical response of all Brexit supporters when asked about how we are better off.

I was a bit sad when New Zealand decided to stick with its old flag - there were a couple of nice designs with a fern on which I thought looked pretty good.

@Peregrina - I think you will see the NZ flag change in time - the problem is an older population wedded to the past.
Though having said that NZers are not wedded to their flag the way segments of the UK public are...... and I think that comes from insecurity.....

@Peregrina

I'd like to ask a question of both prettybird and derxa because they are on opposite sides of the fence: do you think Scottish Nationalism would go away even if Sturgeon was no longer in charge?

I can remember well the time when Scottish Nationalism was Winnie Ewing and Margo McDonald and it was very much a minority interest then. To me it seemed to change with Maggie Thatcher trying out the poll tax on Scotland.

No I don't think it will go away - other people will step up. But I do think it would be weakened, as like her or loathe her depending on your perspective , Nicola is an astute political operator and a good leader. That's why the recent shenanigans on the part of the Tories have been increasingly desperate: trying to get her to resign, on the basis of allegations, before anything was published and committee members openly saying that she was "guilty" and it didn't matter what she said, before she'd even been before the committee and the committee's remit wasn't even about her "guilt" or otherwise, it was about the failure of harassment procedures (let's not even go into the hypocrisy of Conservatives not condemning proven breaches amongst their own Cabinet ministers ).

As dh often tells people: the best way to get rid of Nicola is to vote Yes in an Indyref2 . That way they can vote for who the fuck they like in an independent Scotland because the SNP will almost certainly begin to splinter once independence is achieved.

I might even vote Labour again, if they can rediscover their principles

@yellowspanner

justanother and theelements.... so I am right.you have no argument to put forward. You resort to name calling when your argument is hollow. Fine.

Your point of view is so entrenched you wouldnt be able to engage in a good faith debate it would be nothing but jingoistic soundbites and an angling of the debate into some idiotic gotcha moment that neither address the original point or serves to further the debate but if im wrong lets start the debate on what you feel, now that we have left the EU, are the benefits of Brexit?

let's not even go into the hypocrisy of Conservatives not condemning proven breaches amongst their own Cabinet ministers

Agree. I saw a post on facebook - Sturgeon should resign because she's wasted £500,000 of taxpayers money. A reply was that Johnson should set an example then, having wasted £37 billion of taxpayers money on his failed track and trace system.

now that we have left the EU, are the benefits of Brexit?

We have had the answer - too busy.

I can think of things which might be possible - we start to make a real effort to train up our own NHS staff to replace EU ones who have left, for example. But we didn't need to leave the EU to do that, and at the moment, we don't see a big commitment to doing this. We will go back to the old way of poaching staff from countries like India who can less afford to lose them.

So we might develop purification plants for shellfish. It would be better to clean up our waters though, so that everyone would benefit.