Westminstenders: Move Your Business To The EU

[RedToothBrush]

The government is advising people to move their businesses to the EU to avoid UK taxation and red tape.

Why would you do this?

For the interests of the uk?

Or is it about power WITHIN the uk?

The MHRA approved on the basis that the response in those over 65 was consistent with the response shown in other age groups. Something to do with the protein spike and their knowledge of how other vaccines respond in humans.

It wasn't based on no scientific data. Just a different data point in the absence of evidence in the over 65s. They felt that the response would be consistent with other age groups.

Absence of evidence (proving effectiveness) is not evidence of absence (ineffectiveness) and all that.

Its on twitter somewhere about what they did observe and were happy with.

.

Phew, found you!

Re Sam Cam - she was on Woman's Hour this morning, much was made of this being her very first ever interview. I wondered what her motivation was, but didn't bother listening.

Oh I'm completely sympathetic with the MHRA decision.

You have to balance up the risks of giving someone a potentially less effective but safe medicine (safe doesn't mean no risk - all interventions carry risks), and not giving them one at all. That's a judgement call, and more one for bioethicists than biostatisticians.

Absence of evidence (proving effectiveness) is not evidence of absence (ineffectiveness) and all that.

I'd just note that in a clinical trial you wouldn't usually get away with this sort of reasoning. Outside of emergency use authorisations, you usually DO have to demonstrate efficacy!

If it turns out to be ineffective, or significantly less effective than Moderna or Pfizer, then not just the U.K. but the world more generally has a problem. (The AZ vaccine is cheap and easy to distribute because it doesn't require a complex cold chain = impt for less wealthy countries).

I don't entirely agree here. If it's not as effective but still works to some extent then I think for poorer countries which may well tend to have younger populations, it will still be something useful to have in its armory.

Anyone else following the growing story of Wall Street gamblers having their fingers burned

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55837519

GameStop: Amateur investors continue to outwit Wall Street

(contd)

surprised the FBI haven't used anti counter-terror laws to shut down discussion.

Hi Squid
Hope you are doing OK

John Redwood's grasp of Brexit realities
was rather shown up by Yorkshire Tea and their response to his
buy British grown food tweet

Squid I'd been thinking of you for the past couple of days and hoping you were all right. Glad you've popped up again

Clavinova obviously closing the UK's borders to EU nationals wasn't an option on the 31st of January 2020. However, closing borders to everyone was definitely an option by the 20th of March 2020 or thereabouts. Given that EU countries managed to close their borders to other EU countries and sovereignty and all that.

All we need to do to tell Redwood to go fuck himself is ask why he voted for this deal he now doesn't like. Especially after reading it.

Job done.

No need to talk about anything else. The moment he opens his gob: "Yes, but this is the deal you voted for in parliament."

Rinse and repeat.

And any other Brexiteer MP stupid enough to think they can get away with it.

pointythings
closing borders to everyone was definitely an option by the 20th of March 2020 or thereabouts.

Shut the borders to EU citizens March 2020 (New Zealand style) even if they are UK residents? And expect the EU not to have a tantrum about it? Brexit negotiations - or straight into 'no-deal'? Irish border? 14 day quarantine from Northern Ireland? Lorry drivers?

Given that EU countries managed to close their borders to other EU countries and sovereignty and all that.

They won't need our vaccine for another 6 months or so then.

All we need to do to tell Redwood to go fuck himself is ask why he voted for this deal he now doesn't like. Especially after reading it.

But still I expect the voters in Wokingham will still vote him in at the next election with a stonking majority. That's unless he does a Cameron and does a runner. In which case another pig with a blue rosette is likely to take over.

The moment he opens his gob: "Yes, but this is the deal you voted for in parliament."

His riposte will be "So did Labour."

Oh dear;

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/01/28/boris-johnson-scotland-lockdown-end-brexit-news-latest/

Hello, squid4. All manner of love and good wishes to you and yours.❤️

The moment he opens his gob: "Yes, but this is the deal you voted for in parliament."
His riposte will be "So did Labour."
Yup
sadly so
and Labour will have that millstone for a long time yet

Pure "The Thick Of It"

@Mistigri

Honey because having national health agencies taking different positions needs careful communication to avoid increasing vaccine hesitancy. And let's face it, careful communication isn't something that this U.K. government is very adept at.

We should know soon whether the AZ vaccine is actually effective in the over 65 group, because the U.K. is effectively conducting a large clinical trial on it. If it turns out to be effective, great (but it doesn't necessarily undo any damage to vaccine uptake). If it turns out to be ineffective, or significantly less effective than Moderna or Pfizer, then not just the U.K. but the world more generally has a problem. (The AZ vaccine is cheap and easy to distribute because it doesn't require a complex cold chain = impt for less wealthy countries).

They're all essentially large clinical trials. Vaccines normally take 5-10 years to roll out and these have, of necessity, been telescoped to a limited time frame, with limited trial numbers. It may transpire in the long run that some are more effective than others, or they may prove to all be comparably effective.

UK says Pfizer is fine to take at 12 week interval, Pfizer say they have 'no data' to support this. Germany says AZ vaccine is insufficient to justify use for 65+. WHO has now advised pregnant women not to take the Moderna vaccine. China has claimed that Chinese made vaccines are safer than Western ones due to their use of more mature technology and told Australia to buy Chinese.

My parents (83) have had the AZ vaccine, DH has had Pfizer - so we shall see.

Shut the borders to EU citizens March 2020 (New Zealand style) even if they are UK residents? And expect the EU not to have a tantrum about it? Brexit negotiations - or straight into 'no-deal'? Irish border? 14 day quarantine from Northern Ireland? Lorry drivers?
Yeah, why not.
The UK could have shut down all non essential travel
with essential MUCH more tightly defined
and demanded proper quarantine and tests

in the same way that the Greek Islands did to EVERYBODY, Greek or otherwise
www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/greece/

in the same way that the Greek Islands did to EVERYBODY, Greek or otherwise

Except Stanley Johnson, as I recall. He's "special".

Thanks guys.
I'm still going.
Work is pretty grim; so many people dying.
I feel a bit confused / angry as to why we're not in national mourning at what feels to me like a huge humanitarian catastrophe. But maybe people are just to in it to see it.
I'm alright though & I've been vaccinated (first dose at least).

Love to all of you.
Still follow this thread with great interest and feel very ahead of the news as a result (though that's not necessarily a good feeling !!)

A good assessment in today's FT of the UK response to the pandemic on.ft.com/3iUUnRO

squid4

ListeningQuietly

The EU could divert vaccine supplies allocated to Greece to some of the other member states in that case.

As you mentioned Japan up thread - one idea to copy (2008);

www.workforce.com/uk/news/new-japanese-law-requires-employers-to-combat-obesity-in-the-workforce

www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/09/big-government-small-bellies-what-japan-can-teach-us-about-fighting-fat/261940/