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Brexit

Westminstenders: Move Your Business To The EU

975 replies

RedToothBrush · 24/01/2021 14:46

The government is advising people to move their businesses to the EU to avoid UK taxation and red tape.

Why would you do this?

For the interests of the uk?

Or is it about power WITHIN the uk?

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Thread gallery
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ListeningQuietly · 30/01/2021 22:49

Peregrina
In the shops I've been watching the floor marks are
utterly obvious
to those who know what they are
and 99% of shoppers do not even see them

Gronky · 30/01/2021 22:49

Hopefully, they can deliver some more detail, Coquohvan.

RedToothBrush · 30/01/2021 22:49

Its not a squirrel.

The EU triggered art 16 for gods sake!

There is massive geo-political fall out related directly back to Brexit on this. Including on empty shelves.

Even if only briefly triggered it matters. Arlene has been on Johnson's case to do the same over the issue of NI struggling for goods and supplies from the rest of the country. He has (so far) not listened but its something that does have support with the ranks of the hard Tory Right.

The EU doing this legitimises such an action. The fact it was reversed so quickly may stop it happening again but the EU have lost the moral argument if we were to do the same as they were willing to.

Instead we were given a glimpse of what might happen if we tried that.

The Telegraph is reporting that indeed the Irish Government had no idea it was being considered. And upon finding out deployed the diplomats. We know there were phone calls to the EU and to Johnson. The Telegraph says there was also contact with the White House and the US got on the blower about what the implications of an export ban would be. The US is back in global politics... And it seems they helped sit on the EU and put them back in their box. For now.

But equally if we try the same trick there is a fair bet about what will happen and how it will turn out. So it firmly shuts a door that could have been on the cards.

The crisis is highlighting just how geopolitics changes with the uk outside the EU. Its somewhat destabilised the world order. Disputes between the UK and US are not good. Indeed i believe Macro did an interview / question session with journalists yesterday including the Guardian. They reported that he said that the UK couldn't be half friends with allies and we had to pick who our friends were. He made the point about geography and history and the uk and france being tied together despite our rivalry. Given the change in geopolitics and how we are destabilising the previous status quo and how the vaccine shortage is playing out its an interesting challenge to us.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/30/half-friends-is-not-a-concept-uk-should-decide-who-its-allies-are-says-macron
'Half-pregnant is not a concept': UK should decide who its allies are, says Macron

“What politics does Great Britain wish to choose? It cannot be the best ally of the US, the best ally of the EU and the new Singapore … It has to choose a model,” the French president said, in an interview with the Guardian and a small group of other media.

“But I have the impression the country’s leaders have sold all these models [to the people]. If it decides on a completely transatlantic policy then we [the EU] will need clarification, because there will be divergence on rules and access to markets.

“If it decides to be the new Singapore, which it has once suggested … well, I don’t know. It’s not for me to decide, but I would like good, peaceful relations. Our destinies are linked, our intellectual approach is linked, our researchers and industrials work together … I believe in a sovereign continent and nation states; I don’t believe in neo-nationalism.

This is important. If we want food on the shelves its not just about paperwork and logistics its most definitely about diplomacy too.

And yes it always comes back to Schrodingers Border. Always central to our problem....

This isn't going away once the vaccine crisis fades away. This is the new order of the world and working out exactly how we fit - or don't fit - into it. Trade directly relates to diplomacy.

I have to say that the UK response to the EU’s panic has been spectacularly good. Yes the uk government had played ner ner ner ner, they have been remarkably good and its hard to fault. Perhaps that's a measure of the fear of the ramifications rather than statesmanship. I dont know. But its been largely commendable. Im not going to push my luck with saying that as theres still time to fuck it up or get some sly digs in but so far its ok.

We shall see.

But no not a squirrel.

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ListeningQuietly · 30/01/2021 22:52

A16 is not the squirrel

Vaccines as the excuse are the squirrel
Vaccines are being used as a jingoistic cover for everything else
when the vaccine issue only started a few weeks ago when the first ones were licenced
and will be history in a few weeks when rollout is going smoothly

RedToothBrush · 30/01/2021 22:56

Everything else. To be blunt there isn't a lot of everything else until things improve with covid. Everything is sucked into it and thats going to be the case for 6 weeks precisely because its a real crisis. Not a made up one.

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OrangeBlossomsinthesun · 30/01/2021 23:14

Article 16 is being talked about here in Spain, although it's not referred to as that, just as the "mecanismo de bloqueo" (blocking mechanism).

Peregrina · 31/01/2021 08:55

It's been a complete shambles, but at least everyone is aware of A16. Which hasn't yet been ratified by the EU.

TheElementsSong · 31/01/2021 09:08

Thread about the Vaccine squirrel:

twitter.com/BEERG/status/1355772653613834242

Peregrina · 31/01/2021 09:09

UK will apply on Monday to join the Asia-pacific free trade pact.

Wanting to avoid Trade and Co-operation with the countries on your doorstep because of losing sovereignty is fine. Rushing to join up with one literally half way across the world - bring it on.

I wonder whether the conditions will be as onerous as they supposedly are with the EU. How many of our excuses for Tory politicians will be screaming about making our own laws and sovereignty?

Bluethrough · 31/01/2021 09:16

I am confused, why would the UK be able to join a trading bloc which is supposed to be for Pacific rim countries?

Or did Leaving the EU really mean Leaving Europe?

Maybe its a back door way to claim to have a FTA with the US, should they join CPTPP.

Peregrina · 31/01/2021 09:29

Definitely a back door way to an FTA with the USA - which isn't a member yet. It defies logic - put up Trade barriers with your neighbours, and declare that this makes businesses match fit. Reduce them with people we don't do nearly as much trade with. How much trade does the UK do with Peru for example. How much more would it do with an FTA?

FrankieStein402 · 31/01/2021 09:52

Given that parliament passed a bill that illegally breached the withdrawal argument - I don't think we have any moral standing to complain about the invocation of article 16 - which was a perfectly legal act by the EC :)

thecatfromjapan · 31/01/2021 09:56

Agree with Red. Totally not a squirrel. If anything, there hasn't been enough in the way of serious analysis of what it means.

Wakeupin2022 · 31/01/2021 09:59

It wasn't a perfectly legal act by the EU.......

I don't think we should really be using past behaviour of the British Govt to excuse recent behaviour of the EU Commission.

Peregrina · 31/01/2021 10:03

I am not sure how anything which hasn't yet passed into law can be described as illegal. Politically totally inept, and a gift to the BeLeavers Nasty EU and all that. It's good for the BeLeavers because it takes away the emphasis on what a shit show Brexit is becoming - apart from those seeing their business go down the pan. Not so good for them.

Wakeupin2022 · 31/01/2021 10:07

Just as an aside, I wonder if No 10's better handling of this is because Dom's gone.......

RedToothBrush · 31/01/2021 10:15

The Brexit Shit Show will reveal itself. I have no doubt.

Right now i think people are learning how the EU works. Its a real crisis for the EU because it could affect who is in government in various countries. Imagine Le Pen wins the next election. She wont leave the EU. But it will make it more difficult for the EU Commission to realise ambition of even closer integration. You are more likely to get issues along the lines of the US where there is a huge cultural divide which appears making it harder for the ideological Europeans. It ironically will force reform and most likely make Europe more like the EU that the UK wanted to be part of. It will also make it more nationalistic and hard line against outsiders. Aka the UK.

But this goes back to my point about the uk leaving unbalancing power and this being something that covid highlights and makes worse.

Any ideas of the uk trying to use art 16 to gain leverage have probably been killed stone cold (which is a good thing) but that leaves NI up shit creek with no way to draw attention to itself either.

The government is too busy dealing with covid to be bothered with structural issues. That's our bottom line. And come the summer / autumn thats when economic reality will start to hit as restrictions are lifted.

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RedToothBrush · 31/01/2021 10:17

Restrictions and furlough and other emergency measures are hiding the brexit issue as much as if not more than the vaccine row in my honest opinion.

Ive not been to the supermarket since before Christmas.

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Peregrina · 31/01/2021 10:34

I wondered whether it was Johnson's laziness which has worked to his advantage in this case. The UK doing nothing was probably the best option in this case.

Wakeupin2022 · 31/01/2021 10:46

@Peregrina

I wondered whether it was Johnson's laziness which has worked to his advantage in this case. The UK doing nothing was probably the best option in this case.
I think the lazy thing to do would be react.

I am actually really surprised he hasn't. But then he is playing to a different audience now. He has got 'Brexit' done so to say. The issues aren't really in the public reality yet. This is his time to sit back and be a diplomat.

He really needs this win, so I suspect he is actually spending lots of time with his advisors determining how to play it.

The conciliatory tone in the Telegraph is also telling I think.

Wakeupin2022 · 31/01/2021 10:47

' ' in wrong place Blush

bellinisurge · 31/01/2021 10:49

I'd like to go to the Pacific. I went once. It was lovely. If that's helpful. 🐿

DGRossetti · 31/01/2021 10:53

[quote Coquohvan]@DGRossetti have you got info on that plz?[/quote]
www.dw.com/en/germany-to-spend-750-million-on-coronavirus-vaccine/a-53396167

needs to be added in, for example. So the EU spending is on top of individual countries spending.

borntobequiet · 31/01/2021 10:54

I have a family member who leads a fairly chaotic life. (There are obvious undiagnosed MH issues.). Their history of impulsive behaviour, poor decision making, alienation of family and friends and repeated embarkation on projects that are clearly bound for disaster, to the detriment of themselves and all around them, mirrors itself in the behaviour of the UK for the last few years, most recently in the idea that a trade partnership with Asia/Pacific countries is any sensible substitute for EU membership.
(Ironically those of us who do have diagnosed MH issues - including myself - anxiety which manifests itself from time to time and a not very serious mood disorder - cope much better and lead relatively stable lives.)