Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westministenders: Biden Time Til The Penny Drops

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 16/01/2021 16:03

Next week sees a changing in the international guard with implications for the UK in a post Brexit world where we are starting to realise we are very much on our own and frozen out.

The government were able to cosy up with Trump much to the EU's distaste, but Biden is a whole different kettle of fish. Assuming of course that things go to plan next week and the USA don't end up with an almighty bloody mess on their hands.

The political landscape change means the US will become much more inward looking to try and sort its own shit out (amongst domestic terrorism and having run out of vaccine supplies with no stock available from Pfizer until June top of the agenda) and what little international diplomacy there is, is highly unlikely to be centred around the desparate needs of the UK.

The EU meanwhile are largely happy with their lot over the Brexit deal and to leave the UK to their fish stew. With the sole exception of Ireland, who strangely enough the EU and US will probably be very willing to help - putting the Irish into a unique bridging position between the two which they can use to capitalise on.

We will be schooled on the benefits of being in the EU the hard way it seems. The Thatcherite dream of frictionless trade has been well and truly krilled off. The future beckons with the beaucratic mess and spiralling cost of haulage to Europe making it financially not worthwhile even for big firms but especially for small businesses. A quick look at the cost of smart phones is revealling, and tells a story. Prior to the 1st you could buy from the EU. Now the only place shipping to the UK is through Hong Kong, with all the extra associated charges and customs. The price has gone up considerably. Already.

The fact that the government are only just starting to stay they are herring about problems and will endevour to resolve them just doesn't cut it. They were told of the issues years ago. They chose to ignore them. They had better things to do. Like go for a nice holiday at their second home in Europe or fancy dinner at an authetic French restuarant. Strangely enough for various reasons these pastimes are currently off the menu its starting to dawn just how we are stuck between a rock and a hard plaice as a consequence.

You didn't need to be a brain sturgeon to see this coming. It is exactly what was predicted. Queues of lorries as post Christmas trade picks up and stock piles run out, but also empty shelves where things like jigsaws, fresh vegetable, cheese, electricals and paper used to be. The sunlight uplands and promise of brexit opportunities are turning out to be a load of old pollocks. It will take years for some sectors to rebalance and adjust. If they make it through and don't end up on the rocks.

It is a turtle disaster for the economy. On top of the covid.

Even the pro-leave fishermen are starting to realise that the deal was a load of carp. And want to dump their rotten langoustines outside Downing Street. Their fish are far from happy and they have finally haddock with the government. It doesn't help that the fisheries minister has openly said she didn't read the deal because she was too busy organising a nativity. Which sums up the whole situation in a perfect way. Its not even incompetence, its total indifference and apathy.

The Penny will drop as the Pound does. We will learn that its better to be a big fish in a medium pond than a medium fish in a huge pond simply because of how the food chain works.

The sharks are slowly circling for Johnson and once the heat is off, and we get to the stage were the messaging doesn't read like 'We want covid to kill you whilst we have a Tory Bunfight' as it doesn't sit terribly well with the public.

The dust is settling and who does Johnson play pin the blame on now? This deal isn't the result of sabotage by remainers. This deal is his and his alone to own. Isolated at No10 Johnson is likely to start to feel increasingly like he has no friends. He has a whalely big job ahead of him to turn things around a plot a new course ahead to the future for HMS Britannia.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
23
HannibalHayes · 23/01/2021 11:44

@Peregrina

But at least the unskilled shelf stacking will be an opportunity for all those Leave voters.
Oh, is that why the shelves are half empty?
JustAnotherPoster00 · 23/01/2021 11:54

@Peregrina

But at least the unskilled shelf stacking will be an opportunity for all those Leave voters.
Cant have the brown sauce anywhere near the mayonnaise though, might bring the tone of the aisle down
JustAnotherPoster00 · 23/01/2021 11:57

But on further thought is the brown sauce the british bulldog of sauces and the mayonnaise the forrin muck Confused

Peregrina · 23/01/2021 12:06

So we should ban mayonnaise. This would be an interesting exercise - ban all European food - so no pasta, no pizza, no frankfurters, no croissants or pain au chocolat, no olive oil (which we used to use for getting rid of ear wax anyway). Just a few items I have thought of off the top of my head.

TheElementsOfMedical · 23/01/2021 12:12

@JustAnotherPoster00

But on further thought is the brown sauce the british bulldog of sauces and the mayonnaise the forrin muck Confused
While cooking dinner, DH accidentally knocked a brand-new jar of mayonnaise off the kitchen counter last night. Horrendous mess all over the floor.

I should have told him he had done his ToryBrexitannian patriotic duty Grin

Peregrina · 23/01/2021 12:26

What was wrong with Salad Cream? Like we used to have back in the 1950s?

Mamamia456 · 23/01/2021 12:36

Peregrina - I know a few people who voted remain who stack shelves at Tesco. Nothing wrong with that if that's what they want to do. Not to be sneered at.

DGRossetti · 23/01/2021 12:41

Paging LQ

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55740063

Shipping crisis: I'm being quoted £10,000 for a £1,600 container'

(contd)

I fully expect a flurry of squirrels who will totally and utterly fail to explain why the Covid crisis they will try and blame this on (you know they will) was not enough to delay the end of the transistion period.

Remember, Boris told us that Covid and Brexit together were "no problemo". So you can't blame Covid for this, can you ? Mind you, you can blame the UKs pisspoor handling of Covid.

(Another way to deter squirrels is to eat the nuts before they get to a post ...)

Peregrina · 23/01/2021 12:48

I know a few people who voted remain who stack shelves at Tesco.

Selfish of them. They should leave the jobs for the Leavers. Grin

JustAnotherPoster00 · 23/01/2021 12:51

ooh ooh ooh, can i do this one ~adopts sunshiny brexity elightenment~

She's one of many UK importers facing soaring freight costs amid a global shipping crisis that may last months.

Clearly its a global crisis so no fault of the UK there and she should have just prepared better Hmm

This one is easy

Helen White's lighting range is designed in the UK and manufactured in Guangzhou, China.

Obviously she should stop being such a remoany traitor and move her production to blighty and get jolly old patriots to make her product Hmm

DGRossetti · 23/01/2021 12:59

Once again it seems the EU is handling Brexit much much better than the UK. I am starting to think that in a years time we will see stories (not in English) along the lines of "Le Brexit a stimulé notre économie plus que nous ne le pensions. Pourquoi n'y avons-nous pas pensé il y a des années?"

A tribute to Brexit winning that Boris can shove up his arse.

Ne ego si iterum eodem modo vicero, sine ullo milite Epirum revertar.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/23/cheshire-cheesemaker-says-business-left-with-250000-brexit-hole

A commercial cheesemaker in Cheshire has been left with a £250,000 Brexit hole in his business as a direct result of the UK’s departure from the EU on 1 January.

Simon Spurrell said he has lost 20% of his sales overnight after discovering he needed to provide a £180 health certificate on retail orders to consumers in the EU, including those buying personal gift packs of his award-winning wax-wrapped cheese worth £25 or £30.

He says he had hoped to take part in the “sunny uplands” promised by the government post-Brexit but has instead seen the viability of his online retail come to a “dead stop”.

“Our business had high hopes of continued growth in the EU market, after seeing the avoidance of the no-deal and announcement of a free trade deal.

“What has only become clear in the last week is that our successful B2C [business to consumer] online sales to EU consumers is now impossible to operate,” he said.

To save his business he will now have to switch a £1m investment he was planning to make in a new distribution centre in Macclesfield to the EU, with the loss of 20 jobs and tax revenue to the UK.

DGRossetti · 23/01/2021 13:00

Obviously she should stop being such a remoany traitor and move her production to blighty

Not a great environmental win though.

Peregrina · 23/01/2021 13:01

Obviously she should stop being such a remoany traitor and move her production to blighty and get jolly old patriots to make her product

The problem is, of course, that 60 odd years ago, that is where such products would have been made. There might just be an advantage in it, in that I expect Chinese workers won't be paid much and won't have all that many employment rights. So if manufacturing comes back to the UK the products are likely to be more expensive. That would be even with the Tories scrapping workers rights.

DGRossetti · 23/01/2021 13:19

@Peregrina

Obviously she should stop being such a remoany traitor and move her production to blighty and get jolly old patriots to make her product

The problem is, of course, that 60 odd years ago, that is where such products would have been made. There might just be an advantage in it, in that I expect Chinese workers won't be paid much and won't have all that many employment rights. So if manufacturing comes back to the UK the products are likely to be more expensive. That would be even with the Tories scrapping workers rights.

Not just that. A lot of high tech stuff is serious bad for the environment, unless you spend a lot of money on protections. Money which dare I say the Chinese don't. (After all, who's gonna check).

Aberfan should remind us how industrial mistreatment of the environment can go bad Sad

Fun fact: Industrial mining in the UK started with the Romans in Wales who used hydraulic engineering to rip the soil from hills to get to the gold seams. Totally fucked the landscape for centuries.

Emilyontmoor · 23/01/2021 13:30

There might just be an advantage in it, in that I expect Chinese workers won't be paid much and won't have all that many employment rights. So if manufacturing comes back to the UK the products are likely to be more expensive. That would be even with the Tories scrapping workers rights.

Well possibly not by British standards but those Chinese are becoming more and more middle class and demanding more money and better working conditions so that Chinese manufacturers are rapidly decamping to where they can more effectively exploit workers, countries like Cambodia. Laos and certain African countries, anywhere the government lets them get away with it, as long as they line their pockets in the case of Cambodia. Vietnam are having none of it and all their development projects are in partnership with countries like Japan that are not so exploitative.

More likely her lighting is being made in a town that specialises in lighting and so has the skills and the volume to be more cost effective. Trying to think of a town or city in the UK where the roads are lined with lighting factories for miles and miles.... I once drove through an outer suburb of Shanghai where the road was lined with toilet manufacturers for about 10 miles, everyone had a giant toilet bowl on a pole outside.

Emilyontmoor · 23/01/2021 13:35

DGR That has changed too, follow Isobel Hilton's China Dialogue which has highlighted how China has seen an opportunity in leading on environmental issues chinadialogue.net/en/climate/the-new-geopolitics-of-chinas-climate-leadership/

It's not confucian to poison and asphyxiate your people.....

DGRossetti · 23/01/2021 13:35

A few years ago, when I had a life, I was intrigued by a pexiglass guitar in a local music shop window. I had a go, and got chatting to the owner who had been invited to China to select some stock. (Incidentally the quality of the build was quite acceptable).

He said that the Chinese seem to have created cities for industries. So he visited a city that was dedicated to musical instruments. Meantime you have cities dedicated to automotive components, or electronic components. Much as Sheffield was the city for steel in the industrial revolution. That's one secret to low costs and something the UK can forget about right now.

DGRossetti · 23/01/2021 13:39

@Emilyontmoor

DGR That has changed too, follow Isobel Hilton's China Dialogue which has highlighted how China has seen an opportunity in leading on environmental issues chinadialogue.net/en/climate/the-new-geopolitics-of-chinas-climate-leadership/

It's not confucian to poison and asphyxiate your people.....

Once again proving my point that nothing stands still and tomorrow won't just be "today + 1".

The only interpretation of Marx that we were really able to study in the 80s was the USSR flavour. I really don't know that much about China beyond Noel Cowards analysis in the 1930s. Which while 100% accurate was neither detailed not original.

DGRossetti · 23/01/2021 13:42

Well possibly not by British standards but those Chinese are becoming more and more middle class and demanding more money and better working conditions so that Chinese manufacturers are rapidly decamping to where they can more effectively exploit workers, countries like Cambodia.

Which was always going to happen. Yes, you can offshore for a bit, but eventually shovelling money abroad will raise living standards and expectations and costs to the point where it's no longer saving money.

Emilyontmoor · 23/01/2021 13:45

And just to confirm that Xi is an authoritarian leader of a cruel regime , just not necessarily conforming to the stereotypes. It was me that mentioned the Uyghurs on here long before their plight made MSM

Anyway back out on my slog around the supermarkets to find my weekly shop. In 2020 I could click and collect everything I needed from Tesco, now when I click and collect there is a long list of things they don't have and it takes going inside at least two supermarkets to find everything but nothing significant happened at the end of 2020 to have caused this...... I am sure someone will be along to gaslight me accordingly.

Emilyontmoor · 23/01/2021 13:53

The only interpretation of Marx that we were really able to study in the 80s was the USSR flavour Far better if you want to understand China is to study Confucius and history. I also made the mistake of thinking Mao was a Marxist leader, but he quite consciously identified with the Qin Emperor, the first to unify China and the more you study recent Chinese history the more you see just it as a continuation of the rise and fall of dynasties. In any case when Deng unleashed market forces in 1976 he really just took the lid off the pressure cooker and any pretence of Marxism went out of the window.... Xi is just a chip off the Qin block....

DGRossetti · 23/01/2021 14:00

Thanks for the pointers.

Against all forecasts (the Met office sneakily retrospective slid a weather warning in for yesterday at 20:00) it snowed last night and settled. So DW & decided to postpone our usual Saturday shop. After all we've **ing stockpiled enough. So no chance to inspect the shelves or otherwise.

We probably do shopping wrong. But never accept subsitutes.

HannibalHayes · 23/01/2021 14:04

That traitorous wine merchant who dared to have a name that might possibly be forrin has done another thread on the problems he's been facing;

Daniel Lambert (Wines). Flag of European UnionFlag of FranceFlag of WalesGrapesClinking glasses
@DanielLambert29
We are now 23 days into 2021, here is my second thread on how #brexit reality is holding my business back currently, as I watch the wine supply chain collapse before my very eyes. 1/22

Following on from my thread last week I was more than keen to resolve the issues I was having. With now famous #CHIEF computer declaration system, I again spent time checking the coding but sadly to no avail. 2/22
On Monday afternoon I was thrilled to receive a call from an extremely helpful HMRC senior officer from CDS/Chief team. She requested screen shots, which I supplied quickly, and she promised to reply as quickly as possible adding they were extremely busy with help enquiries. 3/22
Fast forward 48 hours and some considerable time with Chief technicians, using my exact data, the two problems were located. So at this point I was bizarrely pleased to know my data was indeed correct all along. 4/22
As I suspected the Chief system it’s self had a coding error and the advisory information where to put the new information for EU tariff codes was indeed incorrect on the government own website. 5/22
The coding error has been a problem with chief for decades I was advised. I was then told if you enter data into certain boxes & you then remove the data because it’s in the wrong place you need to reset that box by press control F7. This information is not in any manuals. 6/22
Secondly the Tariff codes for an EU declaration can only be enter in one part of Box 44 on #chief (at item level) not Header Level. The advise on HMRC website didn’t say that and has now been updated directly because of my issue. 7/22
On the 20th January we finally got our first successful tariff free C88 Collision symbol. Now to find a lorry to collect stock. After doing this job for 29 years I know pretty much all the wine logistics companies. So after a few calls it was clear they are also having some problems. 8/22
My regular logistics partner has suspended their service completely from the EU to the U.K. until February. These guys operate in 31 countries & know how to move stock quickly, but the paperwork nightmare is just too much for them. They don’t have the time to waste frankly. 9/22
I then called one of the biggest wine logistics companies who handle over 70% of all wine movements.They confirmed they were having major issues with stock crossing the channel.Whilst they would collect my orders they didn’t know when they would able to move them in the U.K.10/22
I was then advised that due to the backlog of stock in their depot in Belgium that no further stock would be collected this week (just past) and probably next week as well. 11/22
I have now moved over to a third wine specialist logistics company who have been getting limited stock across the border. They confirmed, as I knew, that the problems have been 100% paperwork related. The only way they have succeeded is by controlling all the documents. 12/22
Now bearing in mind pre-Brexit I paid nothing on EU customs declarations and now that bill is over £150 per consignment, this cost is going to be passed on. But secondly the shortage of trucks willing to make the journey is also putting huge pressure on the supply chain. 13/22
I now hope, if the wind is blowing in the right direction, to start seeing stock from early February. My orders with producers were placed as far back as December. So from what was a 7-10 days turn around has become a 5-6 week turn around. Another of those Brexit dividends. 14/22
Another observation is the change in VAT collection on EU imports. Before VAT for EU importers was a paper exercise on a vat return. However now you have to pay as you go and then reclaim it back each 1/4. I asked a HMRC vat officer about this. 15/22
He told me that these were indeed the new rules and that the green certificates were being phased out in preference for a online version. However as a country we are paying for a system that collects money to then pay it back again. Why are we doing this?Total waste of time!16/22
All the way along this trip in past few weeks HMRC, the logistics companies and various call centres have all been doing their best. I don’t lay the blame at any of these people or organisations door, for what is an almighty clusterfuck. 17/22
All of these people interestingly all say the same thing. We were not given the time required to adjust to the deal agreed on the 24th December, and to put the systems in place to avoid the chaos that is now unfolding. Moreover it will be more difficult to resolve now. 18/22
To date the not one government official has apologised to business for this mess of their creation. In fact they have actually criticised businesses about not knowing how to complete Chief forms. The forms that had the wrong information displayed on government websites Man facepalming19/22
Moreover I should add Chief was meant to be replaced by CDS years ago, but the government have not put the resources in to make this happen. This is yet another failure on their part and a point a very senior member HMRC agreed with just yesterday. 20/22
We must all remember that the PM has been institutionalised all his life. He has never run a business and had to make a profit to pay his bills. He really thinks you pop down to the Bank of England and demand money for anything. Well apart from staving children of course. 21/22
I think it’s time this government start apologising for the mess that Brexit is causing to the wider U.K. economy, and start putting things right or move over and let the adults take over. Ends. 22/22.

TonMoulin · 23/01/2021 14:46

Nothing like the feedback of someone that has first hand experience....

AuldAlliance · 23/01/2021 14:51

I was exchanging texts briefly yesterday with a friend who is closely involved in fisheries issues. His take on it is that much of this is due to HMRC's inability to set up a functioning IT system, which tallies with what that forrin-sounding, wine-dealing, Brexitannian unbeliever suggests.

If you add in the timescale of Brexit decisions and their implementation, it's a perfect storm.