Question for Leave voters who've changed their minds about Brexit.

[Kendodd]

Before I start, I know, hardly any have, even that eel bloke still supports Brexit. But for the tiny percentage who have -

Why did you change your mind?
Are you angry at all with the people who sold you Brexit?

I know lots of Leave voters are very angry about how its turning out, but they all seem to be angry with the EU for not doing what brexiteer politicians said the EU would do. Even the DUP still supports Brexit.

No, not hand dived - but a unique method used since the 1600s and sustainable - it's Cornwall, not the Tropics .

Using sailboats built for the task. No wonder EU Countries desired them - they were previously much more 'foodie' than we were.

Now the UK is much more into their food and maybe that is the best thing we can take away from our EU membership.

I might ask my friend about it. Without their say so though, I'll still try to avoid, as much as I love them, friend says scallop fishing is the worse of the lot.

Good idea Ken, to ask your friend and follow her advice, hopefully it's the same as mine. I'd be interested to hear what she advises about the SW Estuary 'beds'.

Good night for now.

@Toptotoeunicolour

jas If your question is about the FTA, then that's got nothing to do with being nimble (or not nimble). You are really stretching to link the two.

So what you want is to say the undeniable success of the uk procurement and vaccination program is down to Uk nimbleness because we aren't in the EU - the decisions were made whilst effectively in the EU. But the disaster that is the Brexit FTA (also negotiated whilst in transition) is nothing to do with the not so nimble govt?

I just don't think its possible to say the UK is now nimble (because on one success) a quick look at the Bounce back loan scheme, where fraud is thought to involve £26 billion, shows the UK is far from fleet footed.

Bollocks is it the worst of the lot. You don't accidentally catch dolphins and sharks and turtles when scallop fishing.

I'm hoping there'll start to be some awareness raising of what is caught, farmed grown etc here and awareness of how buying local saves on food miles etc.

People hear buy British and think dodgy racist nationalism when in reality buying relatively locally and seasonally is normal aka green consumerism. But no obviously all environmental concerns belong to remainers.

Bollocks is it the worst of the lot.
Apparently it rakes the sea bed and this causes all sort of problems at the bottom of the food chain. But what do I know, I'm not a marine biologist researching this stuff, I'm not going to think I know better than my friend.

Hand dived are fine though apparently, just really expensive.

I was a scuba diving instructor and amateur marine biologist. Lots of things harm the ocean but none so much as massive industrial scale net trawling. My ex worked as an 'inspector' on an atlantic fishing boat/floating fish factory. He'd have to watch what was caught and quotas and make them throw back to sea the, already dead, species that they weren't allowed to catch.

Not sure how we even got here - brexit is bad because scallop fishing? Seems a stretch.

brexit is bad because scallop fishing?

I don't think anyone said Brexit is bad because of scallop fishing we just went off on a shellfish eating tangent.

To all the posters who think it is the NHS that handled vaccine procurement.... That's not true. They are obviously involved in getting vaccines into arms, but there are also, once again,many private companies involved in logistics and deployment. Just because it is going well, no-one seems to want to acknowledge that the vaccination task force was independent, as is the deployment.

So what you want is to say the undeniable success of the uk procurement and vaccination program is down to Uk nimbleness because we aren't in the EU - the decisions were made whilst effectively in the EU.
Not in the EU, could have participated but chose not to, successful because independent.
But the disaster that is the Brexit FTA (also negotiated whilst in transition) is nothing to do with the not so nimble govt?
Not sure what you mean. Is this the scallops? But the FTA generally is not a result of nimble government, it is the result of protracted negotiations between two parties, so I would not use the world "nimble" in that context.
I just don't think its possible to say the UK is now nimble (because on one success) a quick look at the Bounce back loan scheme, where fraud is thought to involve £26 billion, shows the UK is far from fleet footed.
They were pretty fleet footed, but could have been anyway in this case because we did not have monetary union. In any case, compare and contrast to the EU response - they can't even agree how to spend the money and it took ages to agree the amount. That's why the Italian government resigned and Draghi has been asked to form new government. The fact that there will be fraud on the various schemes offered is a known function of trying to push money into the economy quickly - banks couldn't do the credit checks in that time so government had to offer (partial) guarantees - inevitably this results in poorer credit checks. But at the time it was judged a risk worth taking because of the dire impact of Covid on the economy. Are you arguing that Sunak should not have pushed lending into the economy?

Anyway none of this matters now, it's all very old. We are out and that's all that matters.

He'd have to watch what was caught and quotas and make them throw back to sea the, already dead, species that they weren't allowed to catch.
As I said upthread I really must continue to try to cut down on seafood (and meat) as much as I love it, it does terrible environmental damage. I do hate to say it but the collapse of our fishing industry isn't without some upside.

And Ress-Mogg's quote about 'happier British fish' well... maybe he was right.

I think there are actually people who voted Leave for all sorts of reasons .... people who could have swung either way but ticked the Leave box on the day.... and who regretted their vote pretty quickly.
You don't hear a lot from them because the ballot box is private and they were probably not super vocal either way before or after.
All they will get is grief from both leave voters (you were never a believer anwyay) and from remain voters (well you're thoughtless vote / joke / two fingers to the man / random reason has cost me my job and my fiance you bastard). So really why tell anyone?

Are you arguing that Sunak should not have pushed lending into the economy?

Yes, £26b of fraud out of £47b lent, is a ridiculous amount of money to lose over less than a year, also the Bounce Back Scheme isn't a post covid recovery fund, which is what you compared it too, the EU had nothing to do with individual states business and individual support.

Another example of non nimble post brexit govt is the international travel quarantine fiasco, apparently hotels chained near to airports not contacted even as late as last week!!

The FTA doesn't just affect shell fishermen (in fact that is probably a tiny effect) its decreased trade between the eu and the UK, made it more expensive & caused problems between two regions of our country.

It was an ill thought out, rushed, agreement (4 years wasted) and and whilst the UK bureaucracy is smaller than the EUs, its still cumbersome and slow.

I assume you are trying to argue that our government isn't more nimble, more closely accountable than the Commission. I'm sorry but none of the stretching you do above is remotely convincing, in face of the actual massive issue of vaccine procurement which is staring you in the face.

@Toptotoeunicolour

I assume you are trying to argue that our government isn't more nimble, more closely accountable than the Commission. I'm sorry but none of the stretching you do above is remotely convincing, in face of the actual massive issue of vaccine procurement which is staring you in the face.

I have addressed and acknowledged the vaccine program.

You have not made any attempt to justify your belief that brexit will now lead us to be more nimble, either now or in the future, in fact the evidence is the exact opposite.

I don't see anyone in the govt being accountable for 130k deaths, just a series of excuses obese, elderly, not obeying the rules.

IMHO the EU commission has had little influence on my life in the last 40 years, where as the UK Govt has, yet at no point have i ever lived in an area where my vote makes any difference, such is our FPTP system.

UvdL is such a bad loser that she baselessly dragged the UK into her argument with AZ in order to try to cover up her own incompetence. In spite of that, only days later, even she was able to admit that countries who acted like speedboats did better than those who had to liaise with 27 countries. Even she can admit it, but you can't.

Nimble in the face of an emergency such as Covid. It would take more emergencies to see if this is consistent.

I've seen no acknowledgement or explanation as to why the eu was unwilling to pay up and offset poorer countries who couldn't for vaccine development. You don't generally think of trump or boris as humanitarian types yet the USA and uk stumped up vast sums for this and the eu didn't. What are your thoughts on that and it's ethical implications? What would happen if everyone jumped into big financial blocks and refused to pay towards anything globally necessary because they didn't feel obliged to pay for anyone else or even themselves?

IMHO the EU commission has had little influence on my life in the last 40 years, where as the UK Govt has, yet at no point have i ever lived in an area where my vote makes any difference, such is our FPTP system.
WRT your vote counting it does sound like because you feel unrepresented in UK you prefer to have the EU manage things in spite of the fact that you are way less represented there. FPTP is a separate battle for you to fight if that is your conviction.
WRT to the EU not influencing your life, I can only say that I don't share that view but if it doesn't as you say, why would you care if they are around or not? Ah right, Tories....

It's not eu or tories forever. We do have elections. And eu isn't the way to look if you're looking for a way out of austerity policies. They've thrust them on all their poorer cousins.

It's weird to think well I don't feel represented in my countries politics so I want to send power even further away and make it even less influenced by me. That's a pretty irrational version of logic.

@Toptotoeunicolour I feel you've read more into my answer than i meant, that may be my fault........

What i mean is that day to day, the EU has little impact on me, taxes, local services, national services etc etc are all managed by the UK Govt, what impact does the EU have pot holes? train fares? 99% of taxes? including business taxation.

Things the EU does impact me and the nation, is in trade, ease of travel, working, living/retiring in europe.

As for "nimble" govt in an international emergency? jeez this is a once in a lifetime event (i hope)
I want effective govt in all situations but the things we've done since 2016 (and especially since CV - vaccines apart) do not fill me confidence thats what we'll get as move forward.

It's weird to think well I don't feel represented in my countries politics so I want to send power even further away and make it even less influenced by me. That's a pretty irrational version of logic

Yes you'd be right if anyone had said that.

The UK has given up very little power to the EU, i would argue that the ability to declare war or not is a huge statement of sovereignty, yet that freedom to do so has been given to NATO in the "attack on one, is an attack on all" declaration, no seems to mind.

But 5% vat on sanitary products has everyone boiling with rage!

It's weird to think well I don't feel represented in my countries politics so I want to send power even further away and make it even less influenced by me. That's a pretty irrational version of logic
Actually, for me personally, I did have more influence and representation in EU than in the UK. I'm in my 50s and have always voted. Because of the fptp voting system in the UK, never once has the person or thing I voted for won, not one time. And I'm a floating voter for mainstream parties. Because the EU voting system was different, the people I voted for actually did get elected (they wouldn't in fptp) and I did have a tiny little bit of a voice, compared to zero voice in the UK.

Actually, another exception, our local village parish council. I think they had eight people standing for the ten seats available, the people I voted for all won their seats, not sure if you want to count that considering they still had two empty seats.