Question for Leave voters who've changed their minds about Brexit.

[Kendodd]

Before I start, I know, hardly any have, even that eel bloke still supports Brexit. But for the tiny percentage who have -

Why did you change your mind?
Are you angry at all with the people who sold you Brexit?

I know lots of Leave voters are very angry about how its turning out, but they all seem to be angry with the EU for not doing what brexiteer politicians said the EU would do. Even the DUP still supports Brexit.

I think that any who were wavering at the beginning of January when there were teething troubles over VAT have since had their confidence restored.

I must admit that I was of the "short term pain, long term gain" outlook and really didn't expect to see such an obvious benefit within a month of the end of the transition period.

Having just read of cancer drugs having been thrown out, and production now being switched to Dublin, I can't say that that this gives me a feeling of confidence.

By all means feel confident that the NHS is capable of getting a vaccine programme up and running. Good old Clement Attlee, bringing it in all those years ago.

@Toptotoeunicolour

I'm guessing you're not in NI.
I think polling suggests very very few people of either side have changed their minds. Polling has moved towards remain just because of Leave voters dying and remain voters coming of age. I wonder if it's more socially acceptable to say you voted remain but now support Leave? Maybe that's why you have the impression that lots of people changing from remain to leave?
Still haven't heard from any mind changers, I knew it was a long shot though. I suppose it would also be really interesting to hear from people losing business because of Brexit while still wholeheartedly supporting it. I mean the DUP have done more to bring a United Ireland closer by championing Brexit than the Nationalist have in 30 years, they must see that, but again, absolute unwavering rock solid support for Brexit.

You're right I've just checked, 37/49 (13 undecided etc.) in favour of remain, I'm surprised. Much narrower gap in favour of rejoining. Certainly not the impression I have from my peer group. TBH I'm surprised they are still asking the question. So there must be some plenty out there even if response to the thread wasn't huge.

Just been watching to local news. Maybe I was wrong about Leave voters not changing their minds (I know the vast majority haven't) the news was full of fishermen saying they regret voting Leave as most of their catch went to the EU and Brexit has destroyed their market.

I did think the fishermen sounded a bit like the couple I know who voted Leave and now find they can't retire to their holiday home in Spain because they don't have enough money. They voted to stop FoM and think its completely reasonable and serious position that FoM should only apply one way, in that they can go and live anywhere they want in Europe but Europeans can't come to live here. They still support Leave, even more so if anything, because they are really angry with the EU about their loss of FoM and see this as the EU just being vindictive and is prove as far as they're concerned how bad the EU are.

@Toptotoeunicolour

You're right I've just checked, 37/49 (13 undecided etc.) in favour of remain, I'm surprised. Much narrower gap in favour of rejoining. Certainly not the impression I have from my peer group. TBH I'm surprised they are still asking the question. So there must be some plenty out there even if response to the thread wasn't huge.

Everyone with any sense or any children or grandchildren and a basic grasp of what this means wishes it hadn't happened. It was obvious before the vote that it was always going to make things worse for almost everyone. Before the referendum was announced it was nowhere on the list of things the British public cared about. Does anybody still think it took place for their benefit? If so, they are deluded.

Step one is to accept people were manipulated, into a wet dream for millionnaires/ billionnaires. When normal people finally accept that we can move forward, but I fear that too many of them are too far gone into Rupert Mordoch's wormhole that as as country we may only be able to get back to a normal way of thinking when either his media empire or its fans have died off.

@Kendodd

I did think the fishermen sounded a bit like the couple I know who voted Leave and now find they can't retire to their holiday home in Spain because they don't have enough money. They voted to stop FoM and think its completely reasonable and serious position that FoM should only apply one way, in that they can go and live anywhere they want in Europe but Europeans can't come to live here. They still support Leave, even more so if anything, because they are really angry with the EU about their loss of FoM and see this as the EU just being vindictive and is prove as far as they're concerned how bad the EU are.

Jesus Christ. How deluded can people get? This is mind boggling and if I wasn't British I'd find it hilarious. As it is it is embarrassing (to put it mildly) and just stunning cognitive dissonance. They knew what they were voting for, eh? 🤣 How stupid can you get?!

@Toptotoeunicolour

You're right I've just checked, 37/49 (13 undecided etc.) in favour of remain, I'm surprised. Much narrower gap in favour of rejoining. Certainly not the impression I have from my peer group. TBH I'm surprised they are still asking the question. So there must be some plenty out there even if response to the thread wasn't huge.

I'm not surprised. Chickens, home, roost: reality.

It was obvious before the vote that it was always going to make things worse for almost everyone.
It sounds as though you still can't get your head round the fact that some people hold a different view to yours and that both sides have some validity. I voted leave and haven't wavered but you carry on with your nasty attacks if it makes you/the situation feel better.

I voted leave and haven't wavered
No, very, very few people have, that's why I'm so curious about those who have changed. I think it's true to say we're all much better informed than we were in 2016, especially about Ireland, but more information hasn't moved hardly anyone, in either direction. Even people directly negatively affected haven't moved, or well, on the news last night fishermen were regretful about Brexit and oddly, even blamed Johnson, saying he'd lied to them, instead of blaming the EU. I don't know how hard news teams might have had to search for those people though.

Johnson had lied to them. What beats me is why they expected anything else from a man who has spent his whole life lying and cheating. If he does that with his employers and women he has a relationship with, why should he bother to be truthful to people he doesn't know and doesn't care about anyway?

It wasn't obvious to the leaders of Brexit that it was going to make things worse for everyone. Philip Hammond did hint at this with his no one voted to be poorer, but the others were We hold all the cards and easiest deals in history done over a cup of tea in an afternoon. Four and a half years later, the best Johnson managed was a deal which sold people out. Maybe though, if he'd engaged properly, instead of constantly threatening to walk out, he might have got a better deal.

Kendodd - a lot of English voters don't give a shit about NI, so being better informed about the GFA etc. won't make any difference to them. The saying better informed but no wiser comes to mind.

Phil Hammond was a Remainer, in case it's implied above that he was part of the Leave campaign.

Everyone with any sense or any children or grandchildren and a basic grasp of what this means wishes it hadn't happened. It was obvious before the vote that it was always going to make things worse for almost everyone. Before the referendum was announced it was nowhere on the list of things the British public cared about. Does anybody still think it took place for their benefit? If so, they are deluded.
The vaccines situation has revealed the ineptitude of the Commission - it was always there and anyone who has worked there or in or close to our own government knew it, but now it's centre stage with lives and the economy depending on it, so I think it is not for you to call other people "deluded".

If we had stayed in the EU even if we hadn’t joined their vaccine scheme it would’ve been impossible for us not to hand over the vaccines we had made here, we would’ve spent all that money to then be at the bottom of the pile to get vaccinated. I am so relieved my parents have had the jab, I am so relieved we left.

And for all the reasons for staying in, they are slowly disappearing, free movement won’t be viable anymore because of this virus.

The EU thought that as it was huge and powerful it could hold out, not invest properly or commit early to contracts but would be able to throw their weight around later and get them cheaper.

Other places like uk committed massive investment into vaccine development and risked investing in lots of possibilities.

We were able to do that due to being a small independent state who can quickly make decisions and get things done. A massive sluggish superstate can't do that. It's power is in being big and a protection racket. I don't want to be part of that.

I continue to believe that power and decision making is best off being as close to the stakeholders as possible and able to act in the interests of those stakeholders. That is why I voted to leave. USSR should've been the last superstate

The EU have fucked up mighty about vaccines, I think they were and still are, being over cautious. However, I think the principle of acting as one against covid is a good one. If each country acts in only their own interest we then have winners and losers, an example being the scramble for PPE in the US with different states bidding against each other and just pushing the price up massively.

As much as I am really grateful for our vaccine programme, at last we really are world beating on some good news about covid, and thank God Johnson left it to the NHS and didn't try to give a juicy contract to one of his incompetent mates to deliver the vaccine. Anyway, I do feel a bit guilty about the way vaccine isn't being shared out with the developing world, especially South Africa (because of new variation). I think the WHO have criticised rich countries vaccine hoarding, nobody safe until everyone is safe. We have been brilliant on vaccines though. I wonder if we had have been in the EU vaccine programme if it would have been better? I mean better for the all EU, in that we would have pushed for faster action and put a rocket up their arses.

No it wouldn’t as we were told we couldn’t have any influence on contracts, that’s why we didn’t join.

No it wouldn’t as we were told we couldn’t have any influence on contracts

Is that because we weren't EU members though? I mean the EU IS its member states.

No nothing to do with us not being EU members, google Kate Bingham and the reason why we didn’t go with the EU vaccine scheme

The EU don't want the world to work as one. Just the members of their protection racket. It's nationalism but bigger and more brutal. Just as ussr was. They invested relative pennies in vaccine development that needed richer countries to pump the money in because the likes of Africa couldn't. How is that ok in your book?

They are the ultimate monopoly of massive corporation. They didn't play their part in footing the bill for the world to be vaccinated and expected to still get special treatment.

When someone shows you who they are believe them.

@MagentaDoesNotExist

I fairness to them they had had nearly five years of Leave campaigners telling them the EU would roll over an do whatever we want. I remember James Cleverly answering this exact question from a woman with a holiday home and plans to retire to France. He told her she would have absolutely no problems and shouldn't even worry about it. I remember thinking at the time that he was talking bollocks because what France do is just not in any way in his gift. Funny though that the couple dont blame the people who told them it would be fine, they blame Spain and the EU.

@Baileysforchristmas

You may be right but I've been so poisoned by Boris Johnson's non stop lying that I just don't trust anyone connected to him. It's so wrong, I never used to be like this, I've always been a floating voter but politicians didn't lie like this in the past. Johnson will look a room full of people in the eye and tell them a complete and utter pack of lies, it's awful what he's done to politics, I think he's as bad as Trump for lying (maybe not quite) I don't think theres been anyone like him in UK politics before. As a result I don't trust anyone connected with him because I just don't know if what they're saying is true. I think I local Conservative party somewhere even held him up as an example in training of how to weaponise lying in campaigns, I'll try to find the link about it for you. It really, really shouldn't be this way.
Anyway, despite all that, you might well be right about vaccine procurement and our numbers speak for themselves. I really can't praise them highly enough on vaccine delivery. I do worry about the developing world though.

@TheHoneyBadger
When someone shows you who they are believe them.

Do you include Boris Johnson conspiring to have a journalist beaten up in that? Or all the racist and misogynist stuff hes said and written? What about Nigel Farage and his very obvious hatred of immigrants and refugees?