Westministenders: Where's my milk and cheese?

[RedToothBrush]

The 'smooth' exit from transition now leads to a million and one little things that you can't get hold of or took completely for granted.

Why is sainsbury in NI selling spa milk? Why can't you get hold of your favourite food stuff?

Its a slow strangulation of the country.

In which you get to learn all about the merits of the EU and what a donkey Johnson really is.

@Shrillharridan

Well, no. The tories are always as you describe. They still get voted in year on year.

I think what happens is the Tories stay the same, and the demographics shift under them. There does seem to be a weakly generational cycle around it all. Obviously they twigged this decades ago, which is why successive Tory administrations appear to do their best to kneecap the 18-35 demographic, knowing that 40-70 is much more their natural support.

It's getting to that stubborn 1 in 3 non voters that could swing things. But - Farage excepted - they really don't seem to want to come out. Although - and I would be curious if there has been any research on this - is it the same 1 in 3 every single time ?

As I recall, Cameron's gay marriage legislation was more of a Lib Dem proposal. When he gave his farewell speech he had remarkably few achievements to boast about.

I wonder if 40- 70 is still natural Tory support - part of it was people's lives getting a bit better with settled jobs and a foot on the housing ladder. Now taken away from many of that age group.

I guess so.
It'll be interesting to see the demographic shift after (this) covid has passed.
The tories are losing their core voter age demographic in large numbers since last march :(
What will the families of these people vote?
And add to that people like my ds1 who will have had their education severely compromised?
My concern is lost voters due to losing homes/temp accommodation etc

I wonder if 40- 70 is still natural Tory support - part of it was people's lives getting a bit better with settled jobs and a foot on the housing ladder. Now taken away from many of that age group.

Never underestimate the stories people tell themselves. Much as every Brexiteer was personally fighting in WW2, taking on whole platoons of Nazi stormtroopers armed only with a CurlyWurly, a lot of people on their arses in middle age tell themselves they are "Tory". I saw it with my own MiL.

Mrs Thatcher saw it and played on it. It's long out of print, but Ken Livingstones "If Voting Changed Anything They'd Abolish It" has a bit where he praises her for an instinctive grasp of the English/British mindset.

"If you treat people as middle class" he noted, from her policies, "then they vote as middle class"

Sir Keir Starmer got his title because he was DPP. On merit. Not because he was a posh bastard. Most people know the difference. Patronising to think they don't.

@bellinisurge

Sir Keir Starmer got his title because he was DPP. On merit. Not because he was a posh bastard. Most people know the difference. Patronising to think they don't.

As you said bellini they dont do detail

However Sir Keir, and Sir Ed for that matter, got their titles it won't help. The Blond Wanker Buffoon will still play on the fact that he's a man of the people.

Sir Keir Starmer got his title because he was DPP. On merit. Not because he was a posh bastard. Most people know the difference. Patronising to think they don't.

Yes He is from a working class background.

@MayYouLiveInInterestingTimes

In fact, economic statistics that fail to take time lag into account will always be suspicious on that count alone, even before you look at successive government's mastery of cherry-picking statistics. Ever since statistics started being used as political weaponry they have been hacked, misused, misunderstood and abused. I can't stand the screams of an abused statistic.

Having identified housing and land ownership as the main source of wealth, there may well have been an initial apparent reduction in inequality in the early 90's thanks to the selling off of council houses. You need to be looking later in time to see the real effects of inequality, and that is crystal clear in generational studies.

That didn’t all happen at the same time.

Financial deregulation started in the 70s, escalated in the 80s. Credit card ownership doubled in the 80s and credit card spending quintupled. Private debt has continued to rise (along with business and public debt too). Property prices started to snowball in the 80s and have continued. Sale of council houses started in the 80s. Buy to let mortgages didn’t start until 1996.

Easy mortgages in the U.K.are also key. In other European countries including France and Italy for eg the banks are responsible if the mortgagee defaults so they’re given out much more sparingly - (mainly to help you buy a house or to do work to a house if you already own it )- here they are easy loans against your property.

The Red Wall has been a mirage for years
2019 was a tipping point, no more.

If Labour chase the concept of winning back the Red Wall
rather than dealing with the rest of their potential supporters

they will be out of power for a LONG time

Discussing the past few decades regarding economic equality is an utter waste of time in a country where 90% of the land is still held by the families that helped William the Bastard in 1066. It's like discussing how the font on the speedometer of a race car affects its fuel economy.

www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2014/10/last-1000-years-families-owned-england/

70% of Britain’s land remains in the hand of less than 1% of its population, with a mere 160,000 families owning 66% of it.

(contd)

When you realise that fact - and absorb the implications - you can see why foreign despots still queue up to get that Eton education. They're hoping to pick up some good ol' Norman magic for their own wealthy classes.

And despite efforts to get that land registered (Private Eye passim ) a hell of a lot of it isn't and won't ever be.

Buy to let mortgages didn’t start until 1996
Indeed. I had one of the very first ones.
And when I discovered that Mortgages were being issued with no capital repayment vehicle (in around 2005)
I knew that the UK housing market was being deliberately inflated
to make more fees for those who get paid on percentages

but Gordon Brown thought he'd eliminated Boom and Bust

I've just read this week's post
chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.com/
Pleased that he agrees with me about Starmer and the red wall

@Peregrina

The Brexit vote in Wales was thought to be won by English incomers. I don't know how true that is. There is now a growing Independence movement in Wales. There is still a long way to go on that score, but 50 years ago those fighting for Scottish Independence looked as though they were fighting for a hopeless cause, and it doesn't look that way now.

I’m not sure that’s true. There’s quite a lot of Welsh Brexiters.

I’m interested in the impact of Brexit on Welsh farming in particular. Brexit funding is looking to be 35% less than was expected.

Welsh farmers typically received around 80% of their income - around £15,000 per year - from CAP subsides. And 40% of rural businesses are said to depend on farming.

Wales exports up to 40% of lamb and up to 15% of its beef. 90% of those exports are to the EU. (98% in the case of dairy),

Lamb and beef may potentially sell more within UK in the short term but they might also find there isn't the market. The British like cheap food. In Europe Welsh red meat is seen as a premium niche product. Germany & France, where exports predominantly go, are still big meat eaters, and they look for quality.

The consequences for rural communities could be potentially devastating.

@DGRossetti

Discussing the past few decades regarding economic equality is an utter waste of time in a country where 90% of the land is still held by the families that helped William the Bastard in 1066. It's like discussing how the font on the speedometer of a race car affects its fuel economy.

www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2014/10/last-1000-years-families-owned-england/

70% of Britain’s land remains in the hand of less than 1% of its population, with a mere 160,000 families owning 66% of it.

(contd)

When you realise that fact - and absorb the implications - you can see why foreign despots still queue up to get that Eton education. They're hoping to pick up some good ol' Norman magic for their own wealthy classes.

And despite efforts to get that land registered (Private Eye passim ) a hell of a lot of it isn't and won't ever be.

@DGRossetti

Fair point and I was thinking the same myself. Discussion of wealth and property ownership in the U.K. should acknowledge the role of landowners.

However inequality, credit, high property prices are an international phenomenon, not specific to the survival of U.K. aristocratic estates.

@ListeningQuietly

The Red Wall has been a mirage for years 2019 was a tipping point, no more.

If Labour chase the concept of winning back the Red Wall
rather than dealing with the rest of their potential supporters

they will be out of power for a LONG time

@ListeningQuietly

It’s not either/or. Labour needs both. Which is why Starmer needs to keep them both onside.

apart from halal/carribian, I don't see much of a market for lamb in the uk.

Tatiana
This graph shows why Labour will not regain The Red Wall
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashfield_(UK_Parliament_constituency)#/media/File:Ashfield_election_graph.png

These threads have previously analysed the demographic changes that drove that.
And those changes are permanent.

www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1384129/boris-johnson-leadership-challenge-uk-lockdown-steve-baker-covid19

Tory party are nuts if they choose to come out of lockdown too early!

NHS worker stuck in Kenya as settled status documents rejected. That didn't take long, did it?

Simon Rattle applies for German citizenship. Maybe that is something of a surprise, but given that he's got a Czech wife and children in Germany, perhaps not.

We were supposed to hold all the cards. I genuinely think that the ERG Tories running the party did think that they could have all the benefits but not pay any dues. Whether they are waking up to this, I am not sure.

@ListeningQuietly

My view is that the last election was a Brexit vote and an anti-Corbyn vote. I think Brexit has loosened conventional attachments to parties. Which actually creates potentially more floating voters.

I think it’s too early to come to hard and fast conclusions as to which changes are permanent. Much will depend on Tory performance in power.

While I agree that Labour shouldn’t focus on chasing Labour voters - if they simply concentrate on their current supporters - and do not drum up further support in the populace - they will be out of power indefinitely.

Our local labour party is in free fall
Lots of very unhappy people

A sad indictment of the weaker employment rights the Government believe in
www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jan/16/low-paid-shun-covid-tests-cost-of-self-isolating-too-high

Do they say why Shrillharridan?

I know that LibDems have lost some, and some give the reason that they joined to stop Brexit, and it failed.

@sos - but they are nuts - completely out of touch with how most of the population feel. It is yet again all about an internal Tory party war