Westministenders: Where's my milk and cheese?

[RedToothBrush]

The 'smooth' exit from transition now leads to a million and one little things that you can't get hold of or took completely for granted.

Why is sainsbury in NI selling spa milk? Why can't you get hold of your favourite food stuff?

Its a slow strangulation of the country.

In which you get to learn all about the merits of the EU and what a donkey Johnson really is.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/15/leaveeu-has-domain-name-temporarily-suspended

Leave.EU has been forced to “Internexit” after the group’s EU domain name was temporarily suspended. It comes after the Irish businessman in whose name the pro-Brexit campaign group’s domain name is registered denied having any involvement with the organisation.

(contd)

I'm sure there is an alternative to Starmer but it's not a fucking Corbynite. Starmer needs to get on the offensive now he's done the "national interest " thing.
Too much of England and Wales has been in thrall to this fantasy. Scotland and NI already knew it was shite .
It's a very difficult task to give a compelling message to people who are waking up to being conned. Particularly if they were complicit in the con through their own actions (we know what we are voting for etc etc) and thought you were the enemy.
We are a horribly divided nation and I ain't up for forgiving people anytime soon. But bringing us together (at least what is left after we lose Scotland and wave farewell to NI), is what a Labour leader has to do.

Labour and the Libdems have utterly utterly messed up.

That's quite simplistic given that centrists encouraged both parties down a specific route over a number of years. I warned Starmer was not going to be some sort of saviour. I warned that the UK could not waste another 5 years. A fairer future was available in 2017 and 2019 but the remain arguement was well and truely down a rabbit hole at that point whilst Brexit still offered unicorns. The only thing I'm surprized by is how short Starmer's honeymoon period was.

The electorate has maneuvered itself into this position - not just leavers/brexiteers. There is lack of reflection on all sides. Social democracy has been defeated at a time it is most needed. The remain movement/centrists need to ask itself how the country got here otherwise nothing will be learnt.

What Labour needs is a leader that campaigns robustly for adequate broadband for all households, challenges child poverty, challenges the rise of right wing populism and holds the gov to account over covid. Now, who do we think would be better at that a "Corbynite" or a yet unidentified alternative? Keep in mind expectations of Starmer appear to have dropped like a stone in remarkably quick time.

GhostofFrankGrimes as usual spot on

Chris Grey's blogspot is good, as is this article that he refers to.

The second link contains an observation that DGR may have already made or noticed but had escaped me. The collapse of the Soviet Union meant that the thread to European security seemed to have vanished, so we had less need for the EU. I certainly have noted myself that this was when the Eurosceptics began their noisy campaigns.

After the combined Brexit disaster and election defeat, sold with all that gubbins as the worst defeat ever, blah blah blah as if MP representation in the Commons ever really means anything about the state of minds in Britain, the entire Left is acting as if it has no future and nothing to offer any more.

Yes, this is worth noting. Labour was badly defeated in 1935, but came storming back to victory in 1945 to install a welfare state which was very much welcomed and continued to be well supported for at least the next two decades.

Something we don't hear much of these days is that the Tories meanwhile had their own disastrous defeat in 1929 losing 121 seats to the still emerging Labour party, laying the foundations of the 'Red Wall'. It's always something of note to me that this was when the franchise was extended to women over 21, for the previous decade it had only been available to women over 30.

If Starmers leadership keeps alienating the people (mainly young) that joined the party due to its progressive manifestos in 2017 and 2019 then I dont see Labours electoral results being any better in 2024 IMHO

Starmer has been a huge disappointment so far
But...
The fallout of brexit and covid will be so grim that the cou try could be ready for sweeping change by 2024.
IF we don't have a GE before then...

Totally agree GhostofFranoGrimes.

Meanwhile Johnson is talking the right talk about girls’ education internationally. www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-55680955
Although educating girls does not stop male violence and never has, and girls’ and women’s prospects in Britain are being rolled back. Amber Rudd is politely going round the houses trying not to say that he is personally misogynistic, because sexism is not actually a hate crime in Britain. news.sky.com/story/boris-johnson-has-a-sort-of-language-hes-nervous-using-in-front-of-women-former-minister-amber-rudd-says-12188077

Whats with the starmer bashing / corbyn loving?
Theres a deluded faction of the centre/left that holds to an 'if only' view whether it's espousing benn, smith, foot or corbyn.
The two successful labour leaders in living memory were wilson and blair. Both were excellent orators and party managers - none of the other candidates approach them.

Labour continually divides itself and leaves an open goal for the right, however incompetent. England simply will not elect a government that can be potrayed as 'far left' by the mass media. The Blair/Brown governments achieved far more for the united kingdom than any government since the last world war.

Any mention of 'blair/blairism' gets swamped with the ludicrously exaggerated 'war criminal' taint and their economic achievements blanked by the media lies wrt them causing the market crash.

Until we get a blair or wilson the labour party will not form a government. I dont know if starmer will mature into the role but i'm not writing him off yet - its too soon. It doesn't matter whether/how much he demolishes bozo and crew - there's too much time before the next election - the tories will simply change leadership 12-18 months before the election and rewrite history again.

For now its a watching brief in a long campaign, calling them to account as much as possible, riding the u-turns and working the party divisions.

But what were they successful at doing?

Inequality increased exponentially on Blair’s watch, with employment rights in practice rolled back, and the ability of the rich to leverage their wealth directly against the poor, via private landlording, unleashed. Loads of public money ended up in private hands. The targeting regimes were well-known fiascos (check out Seddon and Vanguard) which fully enabled only the most powerful groups in society to gain more.

I don’t care who is successful if they are better at stamping on the poorest and women than bloody Thatcher herself.

I think people in their early twenties now and coming up to voting age before 2024 might make a difference. They have few vestiges of all the baggage of the last century, they won't be aware of Blair, even. It depends very much what messages they hear about society, and how they factor in the impact of covid/ Brexit / recession/ the environment on themselves. What solutions are offered and if they believe them. Anyone who is still living in 1984 (either version) will seem out of touch. In fact, I would like to hear what politicians have to say to that age group. And then get them out to vote.

Labour continually divides itself and leaves an open goal for the right, however incompetent

This. If we had a culture of attack ads in politics in the UK then the Conservatives wouldn't have to make any, Labour would do it to themselves via factional infighting.

If Steve Baker's lack of spine has shown anything, it's that infighting in the Conservatives is secondary to the success of the party overall. They fall in to line easily enough, and even when the leader is forced to do something a la Cameron and the referendum, the whole party shuffled and reordered behind the new direction with very little mummuring.

Purity spirals everywhere on the left.

You can call it living in 1984 if you like but if a neoliberal government is the only type of government that Britain can put into power then it deserves to reap what it sows. A world only built for the middle class rich and the occasional charity case that catches their eye is worthless to me and to most people who have to actually work for a living.

The collapse of the Soviet Union meant that the thread to European security seemed to have vanished, so we had less need for the EU. I certainly have noted myself that this was when the Eurosceptics began their noisy campaigns.

Those who live closer to Ukraine are keenly aware that the threat from Russia is still v real.

There will be no return to Blairism. Not enough people either on the left or the right would accept it. On the right he is blamed for governing during the EU expansion on the left for the continuation of Thatcherite neo liberalism. Both sides dislike him over Iraq.

Labour tried centre ground under Milliband and it failed. I'm not sure where Starmer fits given that he is trying to be all things to all people but this mindset if not reversed will be a disaster.

Labour could have won in 2017 if the party had been unified. The Tories know how to use FPTP to their adavantage - attract just enough people to get them over the line electorally. Labour always seek to bring together a much wider base - the greater good for the greater number of people. The remain movement seemed to forget about FPTP between 2016-19 so consumed by one issue. Of course the Tories were also helped by some remainers peddling anti Corbyn rhetoric that was ironically straight out of pro Brexit newspapers. This was an appallingly short sighted tactic, helping to doom the country to another 5 years of Tory rule so long as the correct Labour leader could be installed. True to form, this has been a disaster too.

You either get the red team or the blue team. Buyers remorse has kicked in for people that couldn't balance the compromise of Brexit with the need for good government for all. Now you get bad Brexit and ruthless capitalism.

Whats with the starmer bashing / corbyn loving?

We were told if only Labour had a more 'sensible' leader, and Starmer was meant to be it and so far he's voted with the Tories on the brexit deal instead of abstaining which would have given him ground to attack the Tory only deal in the 2024 campaign, we were told we'd be riding high in the polls once we got rid of magic grandpa, we also got rid of a lot of the party membership, CLP's threatened with suspension if they even utter a word of support for Corbyn, things the centrists warned us the hard left were going to do, and what appears to be an abandonment of a lot of the progressive policies and back to the nibbling around the edges of the Tory policies and we're not as Tory as the Tory lost Brown and certainly cost poor old Ed Milliband the election, I will admit putting Milliband on the front bench was a good idea

Do you seriously think voting against this wretched bill would have been a good move? He had to vote for it and get the rest of the PLP on board.
The shit deal has been done. There is a tiny bit of scope for clawing us back into the fold internationally but not until the Johnson/Brexit cult has blown itself out.
The future has to be about protecting what's left of the Uk from the worst of this and building back proper and economically viable links with the EU. And about stopping us hating each other. Right now, I don't have pity or compassion for Brexiteers and Leave supporters. I have revulsion. That has to end but it'll be tough getting there. Starmer had to do it. And some pathetic pose about True Remain won't cut it. Not while people are still in thrall to the Brexit cult.

Do you seriously think voting against this wretched bill would have been a good move?

Abstention not against

Abstention would have meant nothing. It doesn't show leadership. He had to do whatever it took get us away from the spectre of No Deal created by those twats.
A hard and unpleasant decision in the national interest is not the same as a shit decision.

Abstention

Abstention would have meant nothing.

You dont think that Labour supporting this shit deal is going to come back and haunt them, not going to be thrown in their face in the media and on the campaign trail? The naivety of centrists

Voting for this will haunt Labour and starmer.
I'm still staggered he did it.
All to appease a few northern racists.

Starmer was Mr Remain. I live in a Brexit loving red wall area which only stayed Labour because the Brexshit Party split tbe Brexit loving vote. If he'd abstained or voted against, the Brexit idiots up here- who are all "traditional Labour voters" would never have forgiven him.