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Brexit

The Brexit Arms

999 replies

BrandySours · 24/12/2020 14:47

And so it is done....! 🙌

Finally!

🥳 🎉 🇬🇧 🍾 🥂

Merry Xmas!!

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Aria11 · 02/01/2021 19:34

Noname99, have you ever wondered whether the reason is UK specific and not the result of EU action? I.e. working class students are not well represented in UK HE, especially those HE institutions that are research active and would be thus be more likely to encourage students to participate in the Erasmus programme. This is in contrast to HE in the rest of Europe, where there are usually no fees as such, allowing even those from working class backgrounds to get a degree. Or that British do not usually speak a second language, contrary to students in the majority of EU Member States. You may want to think that this is all down to the "racist" EU but the facts suggest that this is all down to the UK's systemic problems when it comes to social mobility.

bellinisurge · 02/01/2021 19:34

You need to meet the people who live in my world.

bellinisurge · 02/01/2021 19:35

UK HE is now too expensive for working class kids. It wasn't when I went. It is now.

Colate · 02/01/2021 19:40

We are a smaller, more insignificant country now. We have been screwed by the money speculators and the gutter media. And we will all have to live with the consequences. So why do you ignorant Brexiters keep crowing about it?

bellinisurge · 02/01/2021 19:41

Let them crow @Colate . Reality will hit home soon enough.

BelleHathor · 02/01/2021 19:42

Tuition Fees another wonderful thing to thank Tony Blair for (Not 👎)

Kendodd · 02/01/2021 19:47

And please don’t pedal that crap about the working class access to Europe.

I am living proof of working class kids having access to Europe through FoM. As were many of my old friends. Take a trip to the Costas one summer season and you'll see loads of working class British kids working in bars and what not. And 'No' as one Leave poster once suggested, we weren't all drug dealers who should be allowed to go there anyway. Those life enhancing experiences that we remember for the rest of our lives are GONE for working class kids like me.

I agree, Euramus probably is dominated by middle class kids but I bet it's no more or less than university is anyway.

Kendodd · 02/01/2021 19:49

The above post was to @Noname99 btw

Noname99 · 02/01/2021 19:50

No you need to meet the people in my world. And fingers crossed as the BLM movement (which I totally respect & respect hugely) was set up as a single vitally important movement against a specific issue but is starting to make white Christian imperialism think a little continues, i hope that the younger generation so taken in by the EU argument are already starting to see what how wrong it is. The fact I’m being increasingly asked to speak at more and more school & uni events gives me really hope that their European white brainwashing is starting to be eroded.

For a lot of non-Christian, brown people living here in the UK and those who’ve read a book or too and gleaned some form of world view and education in the last few years, the vote was leave is a progressive step because the EU represents the ultimate in white Christian privilege, imperialism and exceptionalism. A club made especially to ensure that the world order of white Christian dominance is never challenged by the inferior folk from Europe's ex-colonies. One of the EU’s purpose for being is to ensure that the EU border is impenetrable.... freedom of movement but only for your Christian white brethren. And I’m not talking about refugees which is a different topic.. I’m talking about the right to live and work where you choose. Please explain to me why it is morally, ethically or in anyway ok for Kenyan nurse/plumber/accountant who has the exact same qualifications and experience as a Spanish equivalent to immediately, AUTOMATICALLY be put behind the Spanish every time? Why is economic migration acceptable only from other predominantly white Christian countries?

The EU trade rules ensure preferential treatment of each other whilst occasionally throwing the countries pillaged by European imperialism the bones of ’aid’ but no invite to the top table, no chance of getting out from under the boot. Remainers fake incredulity and deny .... apparently it’s entirely coincidental that the EU is made up of white Christian countries and not at all racist that brown non Christians are not only not allowed to join but actively discriminated against. Perhaps it’s time to educate yourselves. Just read a little. It won’t take long ..... European imperialism.... it’s a fairly well documented subject and the EU solely existed to perpetuate it. How it’s ok to have favourable trade rules for this already privilege group? How is that not white privilege and Europeans protectionism to the max and not inherently institutionally racist.

The world is finally maybe hopefully changing .....the black lives matters movement, the realisation of some more enlightened so called first world people that they are not first world due to some (Christian) god given right or intellectually superiority but that they are only there off the backs (literally) of black and brown people due to the devastation and overwhelming damage that white Christian imperialism has done to the rest of the world.

So maybe, just maybe, some of us are celebrating Britain leaving the cosy white man club and embracing the rest of the world as partners worthy of at least equal consideration ....a sovereign nation willing to extend that same privilege to others rather than a bully boy exclusive club..... even if it does mean you might have to join a fucking queue at border control or already rich over privileged middle class uni students no longer get their Euramus year abroad paid for because it certainly did fuck all for the working class and meant no uni places for African / Asian students unless your parents can pay exorbitant fees which would require earning what would be the top 0.1% salary in those countries.

bellinisurge · 02/01/2021 19:51

@BelleHathor , agree with you. I was first generation to university and I got in on merit with a full grant because of my family's low income. No debt afterwards. And then I used Erasmus.

Kendodd · 02/01/2021 19:51

Take a trip to the Costas one summer season and you'll see loads of working class British kids working in bars and what not.

Let me correct this, you would have seen loads of working class British kids, you won't any more.

bellinisurge · 02/01/2021 19:52

@Noname99 , and if they aren't taken in by the EU, they won't be taken in by the increasingly anachronistic Union. Reap what you sow.

Otellie · 02/01/2021 19:54

I wouldn't have been able to afford it myself personally. Too busy trying to work and make ends meet. Pay my rent. Eat. Boring things like that. So don't give me that crap about young people in poverty being able to bum across europe. They're not. Not easily. The only people I knew that were able to afford those tickets to do something like that were a lot wealthier than me.

wherearemychickens · 02/01/2021 19:56

My first query on your analysis, Noname, is what was stopping us from opening up immigration to those other countries whilst we were in the EU? It was our competence and within our gift.

Aria11 · 02/01/2021 19:57

because it certainly did fuck all for the working class and meant no uni places for African / Asian students unless your parents can pay exorbitant fees which would require earning what would be the top 0.1% salary in those countries.

What does this mean? How did the Erasmus have the effect of no uni places for African/Asian students? I am struggling to understand why this would be the case. Btw, non-EU students will continue to pay post-Brexit the same amount of fees in HE institutions, no less, and in fact, the fees have gone up because of the reduction in EU student numbers. This is purely the outcome of successive government policies in reducing the HE budget.

ListeningQuietly · 02/01/2021 20:00

If the UK is unequal
and UK education policies do not allow all children to reach their potential
and UK tuition fee policies make kids feel unable to go to University
and UK immigration policies make it harder for people to come and work here

how does narrowing options even further by leaving the EU help ?

bellinisurge · 02/01/2021 20:02

@Otellie , summer jobs when you can't find a job here. Guess you are being deliberately obtuse because you can't imagine other people working hard, paying taxes and voting Remain. Hi, by the way.

BelleHathor · 02/01/2021 20:02

[quote bellinisurge]@BelleHathor , agree with you. I was first generation to university and I got in on merit with a full grant because of my family's low income. No debt afterwards. And then I used Erasmus. [/quote]
I was one of the 1st years to pay and have to take a loan, however I got a good degree from a Russell Group Uni.
Going forward I do hope that the Turing system is means tested and a % of places is reserved for low income people to increase social mobility.

Aria11 · 02/01/2021 20:02

Otellie, this could be the case with you but not with many people, I am afraid. For the reasons I gave earlier, I have come across in my work in HE (and I have been working in this sector for 20 years) lots of Erasmus students from elsewhere in Europe and a lot of them have been from a working class background. I was one of those as well. My father was not even able to finish primary school as they were very poor but because of the fact that HE was free and that I could speak other languages, I was privileged and lucky to make use of the scheme. And believe me, it changed my life forever in a good way.

Kendodd · 02/01/2021 20:03

@Noname99

So maybe, just maybe, some of us are celebrating Britain leaving the cosy white man club

Shall I tell you who's celebrating Brexit?

Tommy Robinson
EDL
Britain First
BNP
Tony Martin
National Action

You are on the same side as every single racist far right group in the UK. Not one of them supported Remain. Have a little think about that.

bellinisurge · 02/01/2021 20:04

I'm sure the Turing thing will pay for flights to the US and accommodation. And uni fees 😂😂😂😂 Because it needs to be as easy as a cheapo flight/bus fare to Ghent or wherever.

Kendodd · 02/01/2021 20:06

And I will add, there is absolutely nothing in EU law that stopped us treating the Kenyan nurse in exactly the same way for immigration into the UK as the Spanish nurse.

Kendodd · 02/01/2021 20:14

Can I ask you, @Noname99 what did you think when you saw Farage's Breaking Point poster? Genuine question.

Otellie · 02/01/2021 20:15

Otellie, this could be the case with you but not with many people, I am afraid.

The inability to see what is outside your own personal circumstances is really quite astounding. A remainer mistake for sure.

Aria11 · 02/01/2021 20:20

The inability to see what is outside your own personal circumstances is really quite astounding. A remainer mistake for sure.

The inability of you to understand that it is not possible to rely on a single case to make any argument re this is the one that is astounding. As I said explicitly, I have been working in HE for 20 years and have been responsible, among others, for the Erasmus programme in my institution. Unless you have similar experience and you would like to share it with us.

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