The Brexit Arms

[BrandySours]

And so it is done....! 🙌

Finally!

🥳 🎉 🇬🇧 🍾 🥂

Merry Xmas!!

Brexit will not make the UK less unequal
which is very sad

And btw, I only referred to my case as an example of the reasons I gave above, i.e. the fact that other EU states have no fees and that students in those countries speak more than one or two languages. Not to score a point. But it seems that you are take everything personally.

I am talking about the opportunity for cheap air tickets and bumming around Europe Aria. Not student exchange. Which is going to be replaced by Turing for little Felicity.

You are on the same side as every single racist far right group in the UK. Not one of them supported Remain. Have a little think about that

Yet more patronising crap 🙄

Get
A
Fucking
Grip

"Have a little think about that"

Strange as you replied to my comment about the Erasmus programme, Otellie. But I assume then that you don't have any professional experience in dealing with the Erasmus programme. As for the issue with 'little Fecility', you will find that the problem is again UK specific, I am afraid, and nothing to do with EU Member States. You may know that inequality in other EU countries is not as high as in the UK. As before, everything can be reduced to the UK's inability to deal with its own problems rather than seeking always a scapegoat.

Yet more patronising crap

And yet all true.

As before, everything can be reduced to the UK's inability to deal with its own problems and seeking always a scapegoat.

@BrandySours

You are on the same side as every single racist far right group in the UK. Not one of them supported Remain. Have a little think about that

Yet more patronising crap 🙄

Get
A
Fucking
Grip

"Have a little think about that"

🤣🤣🤣I've missed you Brandy

The Turing scheme as announced thus far is for UK students to go abroad, not for students from other countries to come to UK universities. There is no mention anywhere of allowing students from elsewhere to attend UK universities w/o paying fees under Turing: it is for UK students, not reciprocal, which has been how the UK gvmt has viewed Erasmus since 2016 in all its communication.

No change for Asian or African students, then.

And UK universities will have to put in tenders for the funding...hopefully cronyproof ones).

This decision will deprive the UK of the income that EU Erasmus students brought to the country, as well as the other economic benefits of the programme (estimated by UUKI at £243m/yr).

Like Aria11, I've been involved in Erasmus for a long time (15yrs) and (s)he is absolutely right that - although Erasmus apprenticeships and internships help less privileged young British people, as well as teaching staff from all levels of education who go on mobility to share professional skills - quite a lot of outgoing UK (well, English...it's different for Scottish and Irish students, IME) students are well-off, because of the cost of HE fees, esp. for a degree that is a year longer, and because of the attitude to (not) teaching MFL in the state education system in the last decade or so.
None of that is due to the EU. Nor is the decision made by many English universities not to oblige students to take exams or pass credits in the host university while on mobility, thus turning it into a de facto gap year - something no other EU member state I have worked with does.

And some c&p for those who enjoy it:

1. Study abroad supports social mobility. Students who study abroad outperform their peers academically and professionally. They are:

19% more likely to gain a 1st class degree
20% less likely to be unemployed
10% more likely to be in ‘graduate’ jobs six months after graduation

For those from underrepresented and disadvantaged groups the benefits are even more pronounced:
BME students who studied abroad are 17% more likely to be in 'graduate' jobs six months after graduation
Mature students who participated in these programmes earn 10% more than their peers

2. International opportunities help students develop skills that UK businesses need. Research by the CBI has found that: Seven out of 10 small and medium size enterprises believe that future executives will need foreign language skills and international experience 39% of employers are dissatisfied with graduates’ intercultural awareness 49% of employers are dissatisfied with graduates’ language skills

www.universitiesuk.ac.uk/news/Pages/Universities-UK-launches-SupportStudyAbroad-campaign-to-protect-study-abroad-in-case-of-no-deal-Brexit.aspx

"The inability to see what is outside your own personal circumstances is really quite astounding. A remainer mistake for sure."
I live in a Leave voting area. I understand entirely why people fell for it. But we are where we are.
And your inability to see the impending end of tbe Union (but not its members) fulfills your analysis perfectly.

🙄🙄

I think the Erasmus programme is excellent. Personally I was accepted on to Universitas 21 when I was at Uni.

I don’t think Erasmus is particularly doing anything for working class kids though. Erasmus members are primarily Russell Group. You can deduce who uses it on the whole. I also wouldn’t imagine that the average joe has heard of Erasmus. It doesn’t affect people’s lives. It is a middle class thing. The EU has enriched the middle class. It hasn’t been anywhere near as positive for the working class.

Erasmus members are primarily Russell Group.
50% are. That is due to how the UK's HE system is structured. In EU countries where HE is not so elitist, that's not relevant.

Erasmus covers far more than HE.
In countries where apprenticeships are taken v seriously, it helps more WC kids than in the UK, but again, that's not the fault of the Erasmus programme per se, but of the UK's approach to apprenticeships and to MFL learning.

Brexit is done, op. Next Act is the break up of the United Kingdom. Brexit started it with Irish Sea border. NI residents still access Erasmus. Scottish students, who already get cheaper HE than English ones, may still consider it attractive. And taken off them by England.
We'll become friends and partners but each with their own sovereignty. Which, as we know, worth the economic cost.

The problem as I see it is that the middle class are going to be able to mostly cope with the immediate negative effects of Brexit (I don't think anyone is denying there will be some?); the pains will be felt disproportionately by those who don't have resources.

Long-term there may well be some benefits (reform of the CAP is one I can genuinely see, if it's stewarded well - have my doubts about this government managing to do that) but long-term benefits don't help people here and now.

Not having any kind of implementation period seems mad to me. I think New Zealand had something like 4 years notice of us joining the EU to adjust, and it still hammered their exports and led to all kinds of economic pain. What we're doing is much bigger than that, overnight effectively, given when a lot of the guidance got issued for businesses.

Erasmus is totemic. Like fish. As (un)important as the other.

Strange as you replied to my comment about the Erasmus programme, Otellie

I was initially responding to Bellinisurge Aria. You just jumped in with your Erasmus programme.

Erasmus is an irrelevance
as is fish.

The UK is very unequal
exacerbated by sky high tuition fees for nurses
exacerbated by a privatised housing market that does not level up
exacerbated by privatised mass transit that does not reward access
exacerbated by FPTP devaluing the opinions of over half the people in any area

Brexit will not improve this

I was initially responding to Bellinisurge Aria. You just jumped in with your Erasmus programme.
It is true, I was replying to the comments made about the Erasmus earlier by other posters. But you replied directly Otellie. So forgive me if I assumed you were referring to Erasmus as well.

@ListeningQuietly

Erasmus is an irrelevance as is fish.

The UK is very unequal
exacerbated by sky high tuition fees for nurses
exacerbated by a privatised housing market that does not level up
exacerbated by privatised mass transit that does not reward access
exacerbated by FPTP devaluing the opinions of over half the people in any area

Brexit will not improve this

Being in the EU didn’t improve the lives of the working class in the UK. The EU attracted other country’s working class to the UK and improved their lives. On the whole the EU didn’t help many of the UK working class. I know you will blame the UK government but the EU did not specifically improve the lives of the UK working class.

Well I'm working class, being in the EU improved my life no end.

Being in the EU didn’t improve the lives of the working class in the UK
Holiday pay
Maternity pay
Clean Air
Clean water
Health and safety
The EU attracted other country’s working class to the UK and improved their lives.
Yup the UK have always been crap at recoding who comes here from anwhere, ever
On the whole the EU didn’t help many of the UK working class.
The UK Government is responsible for Citizen welfare, not the Brussels bureaucracy
I know you will blame the UK government but the EU did not specifically improve the lives of the UK working class.
(a) it was not the EUs job
(b) the UK Government will not change its spots

@Kendodd

Well I'm working class, being in the EU improved my life no end.

For you Ken but not for the diddy men. They can’t afford a jam butty anymore.

TerryHearn, can you please help us as well and point to the evidence about this? The evidence I have come across suggests the exact opposite. Here is an example from the Treasury Office:
^assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/517415/treasury_analysis_economic_impact_of_eu_membership_web.pdf^
The TUC was also a strong advocate of the UK staying in the EU. Are you suggesting that they are not representing working class people? ^classonline.org.uk/docs/Does_the_EU_work_for_working_class_people%28FINAL_2%29.pdf^