Can any genuine non-goady posters who voted for Brexit answer some of the following questions please?

[Spittingchestnuts]

I would prefer to avoid a goady thread if at all possible.

I'm British but I live outside the UK and I'm interested to know - now Brexit is "done" (almost) - why current discussions about it on Mumsnet and elsewhere on UK sm and in the press, are not more focused on what the UK will be doing after 1st January when the transition period comes to an end should we have no deal, and even if we do? (I'm thinking more about policy and direction rather than possible goods delays at borders but those are important too.) Is anyone who voted for Brexit prepared to admit that they are worried with the New Year looming so close and so little information coming from the government?

Some regular pro-Brexit posters on here seem to have blind faith in Boris Johnson's government and a strong belief that life will automatically be better outside the EU despite the fact that, apart from a few vague witterings about greater flexibility and increased sovereignty, we almost have next to no detailed information about it. The lack of detailed facts available is scary actually. As far as I can understand it, Brexiteers voted for a "vague notion" sketched in the briefest of terms by a proven liar and his cohorts with next to no detail or shading. If you think this interpretation is unfair, can you give me more details as to why? What concrete things did you vote for as opposed to the things you voted against?

To date, the UK government have been very vocal about what they don't want and how they don't want to be shackled to EU rules, but have been less forthcoming about what they do want and how these changes wiil translate in to legislation. We've rejected rules and policies that are roughly aligned with a Christian liberal, centre-leaning social democratic model that focuses on high product standards and good basic employment protections, so where will we go now? In a different direction presumably?

So what will the laws and policies be that distinguish ourselves from this EU mould? 52% of UK citizens voted for them so can any of you please explain them? We will presumably be steering to the right of where we are now? Given that Brexit was championed by the right wing of the Conservative party who want lower taxes, less state intervention, I would say that that's a logical conclusion, but is no one particularly alarmed by this prospect? Can anyone who voted for Brexit but doesn't view themselves as particularly right wing , explain this to me?

I know it is said that some Brexiteers voted for improved public services, and for more money being invested in the NHS etc? Can anyone explain how Boris will manage to recruit more nurses, more police, and have better environmental standards, while presiding over a low tax economy or "Singapore-on-Thames"? Does no one recognise a potential conflict between these two positions?

And now we want to trade more with non-EU countries that are geographically further away, how will be, practically and logistically, manage to do this without undermining current UK efforts to be more environmentally friendly?

And what about the "small" matter of Scotland voting to remain by 62%? And Northern Ireland by 55.8%? Is anyone who voted for Brexit even mildly concerned about what affect a Conservative government, based in Westminster, imposing a divergence away from Europe they didn't want, on citizens of Scotland and N.Ireland, will have on the unity of the UK ?

It's probably too much to hope for but I would love some non-goady genuine pro-Brexit posters to explain some of this to me. As I love and miss the UK, and have lots of family there, and there are 20 days until the new year, these questions are occupying my thoughts and keeping me awake at night.

No one?

I voted Remain, pretty much without hesitation. I've only become more convinced it was the right decision.
The only argument that made me think 'hmmmm' was something I read very, very recently. I'd just watched an episode of 'Endeavour' and was pondering whether people could really get an Indian takeaway delivered to the door in 1960s Oxford. I went online a bit and chanced upon an article talking about the number of voters (2nd, 3rd gen Indians sort of thing) who voted Brexit a because they felt trade deals between the UK and India had inevitably taken a back seat to deals within the EU, for the best part of fifty years. Not unreasonably, they were a bit pissed off. I though that was probably the closest thing to a decent reason that I'd seen.

Yes, I don't claim to know anything about this but I think it makes sense why some voters with a family history in Commonwealth or former Commonwealth countries would vote for Brexit although I think it would be discrimatory to assume all of them did.

(I enjoy Endeavour too btw.)

My op was too long (middle of the night brain race) but I was really wanting to know more about how people who voted for Brexit saw the future? In what direction do they think government policy will go? So less about what they voted against, but more about what they voted for?

Doublebubble thanks for reply but I refuse to think all Leavers voted on racist grounds. That would be too depressing. And actually I don't think it's true.

I think a lot of them may have voted out of fear of public services being overwhelmed but that is slightly different. But of those who did that, were they aware they were backing Boris to take economic policies further to the right than they are now? Or do they disagree that it is going to go that way? If so, what do they think government policy and investment will look like post-Brexit?

I would like to know why Brexiters who sing the praises of Trade Deals with Japan, or look forward to one with the Trans Pacific partnership don't mind sacrificing some sovereignty in the process.

Brexiters wanted to "take back control", stop giving UK taxpayers money to foreigners, and stop unfettered immigration. They also wanted the NHS to have an extra 350 million every week.

Brexit was big on promises and scant on detail. The only reason we had an in-or-out referendum was because David Cameron was scared of losing the election. He never for a moment thought that Brexit would "win".

Nobody wins.
Nobody knew what they were voting for.
It was a shit show of staggering proportions.

Our government is barely capable of running a bath. Boris is an embarrassment, but I doubt any other party would have done any better. They're all way out of their depth and none of them is qualified to guide us through this mess. I expect the bankers and traders are the only ones who will know how to exploit the situation of their advantage. As usual.

@Spittingchestnuts

Well, certainly a lot of peer pressure was involved as well. So perhaps not all were on racist grounds but certainly family and friend coercion.

I refuse to think all Leavers voted on racist grounds. That would be too depressing. And actually I don't think it's true.

I certainly don't believe that "all leavers voted on racist grounds" but immigration absolutely was a major factor, if not THE main factor, in the Brexit vote.

Ask yourself why we are not getting a sane Brexit. The answer is that the mood was set in January 2017 when the most anti-migrant Home Secretary of my lifetime (before the current one anyway) decided to make free movement the test by which Brexit would be judged.

PS racism and opposition to migration are clearly linked but they are not the same thing. Johnson is racist but not, fundamentally, anti-migration (he wanted Turkey in the EU, remember?). Theresa May is not (or at least not obviously) racist but she has generally been very anti-migration.

I don't think all Brexiteers are racist, far from it but (if arguments on here are anything to go by) I don't think you'll get many answers because 1) they haven't really thought about it 2) they, by and large, don't understand how international trade works* 3) they are prepared to blindly trust people they consider to be experts (PM for example) who don't have any expertise in this area whilst ignoring those who really do.
*Disclaimer - I don't know that much about international trade either which is why I wouldn't advocate tearing up everything and starting from scratch!

I think all your questions and concerns are perfectly valid and of great importance to all UK citizens.
But I do not think it is up to voters, whatever they voted for, to reply to these. It is up to the goverment. They have been recently elected, so surely they laid their plans then. The only good thing to come after the 31st is that they will have to come up with the answers to all of these. Brexit will be finally done, so they will have to do proper politics and lead the country.
It is a shame that they are keeping people and business in limbo till the last day.
If you are asking what we want or think it may happen, then we can give it a go:

• they may not sign a deal on the 31st, or yes, yet to know.... but if they do not, we will not remain on WTO for long. They will reach deals next year, maybe at small chunks at the time, on particular issues. We may have delays on supplies, so for first time we are trying to stock at work. And also, we will do so at home.
• the pound will drop, and it may become financially unviable to keep buying almost everything abroad. So UK will see a growth on its own manufacturing industry. There is good knowledge of how to do so environmentally friendly now, so there will be an increase on re-use, re-cycling and good waste management.
• UK will need real ships for international trade this time.
• I am worried about the current zero hours contracts, and that this may spread further in manufacturing. It is not fair to make people wait till the last minute to know which shift they are in. I think UK goverment needs to take steps for abolish these from now, or it can lead to a more unfair ground, with people loosing on their work rights.
• UK citizens will see a marked reduction on their finances, for quite a few years to come. If the goverment do not act quickly, it may lead to further inequalities, and poorer people getting even less. I think food and clothing prices will climb up.
• A surge in innovation and research as UK faces doing things with less resources, hopefully leading to more sources of income.

Covid is the last thing UK needed this year, as it is straining people and business already.
I am pro-remain, but that does no longer matter, as that is long gone.

Just popping in to say I hugely appreciate these considered replies. I have to go and buy dog food and order the turkey but I'll bbl to reply, am not ignoring responses.

I can tell you why I voted Leave. In 2016 I was very worried by media reports of the number of migrants in Calais. I felt let down by the EU which was letting those people have free passage through member countries and not complying with rules to stop them at their entry point to Europe. I was also concerned that the EU was threatening to make the UK resettle a quota of these people against our wishes.

If they were genuine asylum seekers I’d be less concerned, but a large proportion of them were economic migrants. Culturally they were different from British people and I had already seen the negative impact of this in my local area, especially in relation to their attitudes to equality. There had been a sharp rise in crime, particularly assault and rape committed by immigrants, which can be directly attributed to non-Western attitudes towards women. At the time there was also the suggestion that Turkey would join the EU, another country where unacceptable attitudes towards women proliferate. I would always be welcoming towards genuine immigrants who want to join our society but I found it unacceptable to import large numbers of men who regard women as second class citizens.

I didn’t pay much attention to economic issues because I was more concerned about social issues. In as much as I thought about economics, I figured price rises were a good thing for the environment because it would stop people over-consuming as they are at present. I also hoped that a reduction in migrant labour might lead to proper jobs for UK citizens and the abolition of zero hour contracts which quite frankly destroy people’s lives.

Retrospectively I appreciate that our government could have addressed these issues without Brexit, but the fact is they weren’t doing anything about it. Voting Leave was a way to make my voice heard.

That is right Anna, all those things could have been addressed without Brexit itself. The main motor of the EU is the money involved in the Single Market.
My worries are that THIS goverment may not adress these even after Brexit. I do hope so, that they start doing proper politics.

What concrete things did you vote for as opposed to the things you voted against?
In a nutshell: I voted for an equal society where women are safe and respected and attitudes are tolerant and accepting. I voted for not allowing any more people into the UK who are opposed to those ideals.

That is right Anna, all those things could have been addressed without Brexit itself
Yep. But voting for Brexit was the only power I had to effect change on those issues. If those problems had been addressed separately then I would have voted Remain.

Most people aren't interested in "Why" but happier to play the blame game, calling stupid, naive etc.
More than happy to explain why there was a considerable majority in the Northern Regions for Brexit, but unfortunately doesn't meet peoples agaenda or even the Labour Party's agenda.

The Irony & Karma is certainly not missed on those in northern climes of this situation and how the politicians on all sides had major surprises.The vote in reality has been decades in the making and was in response to both Tory and New Tory Policies under Phony Tony Tory Blair.

A few years after joining we got Thatcher The Tax Dodger and in late 70's early 80's wreaked devastation on the North its engineering, shipbuilding, manufacturing and mining industries in favour of a service economy. Part of the excuse for standing by and watching 10,000's of good working famalies destryed was that European Rules didn't allow help. (Europe was the scapegoat for many things during membership) The reality of course it was dogma especially against the Miners (Scargill equally to blame BTW) and given there was no votes for her she didn't give a monkeys. Hence No such thing as society and Tebbit "On Yer Bike" speech. Unemployment got to 15 -20% and higher is some places and others never recovered. It has also helped in the practice of unemployment to keep wages low. So a lot of good paying, highly skilled, impossible to replace jobs were gone and nothing in its place really.

We were are largely forgotten about.
The Tories didn't care.
New Tory under Phony Tony Tory Blair just counted on the votes and mostly concentrated policies to the marginal South East & London seats. So basically 40+ years of being ignored some would say betrayed.

When Phony Tony Blair came in it was under corruption and people wanted a real change. When they left it was under corruption cloud and just 13 years of exactly the same. When being elected in Bishop if he had of stood up and said how much he admired Thatcher The Tax Dodger and he seen his role as "to finish what she started" he would of been stoned not elected. He was even arrogant enough to delive his "Immigrant Speech" which was identical in meaning to Tebbit's "On Yer Bike" speech.

Economic Cycles tend to be exactly that good times and bad. In the northern regions the bad was bad so it took a long time to recover (places never have). So an opportunity to improve life get a better job train. What ended up happening is that wages were supressed under FOM, worse still mostly construction work, European workers were coming, living in multiple lodgings and working cheaper and btw could also claim Child Credit if had children at home. This was made worse when more joined. Phony Tony Tory Blair knew exactly what was happening which is why they changed the rules around Self Employment to negate registration. This meant stagnate pay, no training opportunities as firms weren't interested cheaper to import than train and more self employment. (as more people have learnt No Sick Pay, No Holidays, No pay rained off etc.) This led to Browns ridiculous statement "British Jobs For British People" when they knew the gig was up. New Tory were losing votes to right wing parties before 2010 in the north.

Add in lack of housing, refusal to do anything about it.
Homelessness
Growing Inequality
Poverty
Food Banks etc.
Health Service, waiting times over extended.

All these things effect the lower made much more than others.
Financial Crash comes hit with 15% increase in VAT, again effects worse off most. It was no surprise at all they lost votes in Scotland and North in 2010, the only saving grace for them in the north was there was no SNP, type party.
Then coalition Austerity for some. Bedroom tax and at the same time Help To Buy on an Affordable £600,000 House, in essence taking money from those that desperately need it and giving it to those that don't need it.
The rest of "Auterity For Some" impacted those at the bottom more, cuts in benefits, housing, health services etc. and still a growing population. Also extended what New Tory started with ESA and WCA into taking money of the most vulnerable of all disabled.

Here's the Irony and here's the Karma.
Brexit was and is never about helping the poor, making things fairer, more money for the NHS etc. It was right wing conservative seeking less labour laws rights, dodging questions about tax havens etc. Never in their wildest dreams did they expect such support from Labour strongholds. The vast majority didn't care what the bus said the die was cast on announcement and the previous decades.

Cameron was caught out playing the the Tory right wing.
Labour initially said they would respect the result, but that morphed into remain in everything but name, egged on by Phony Tony Tory Blair and MK 2 SKS. This was on the unwavering belief that the traditional seats would never vote Tory.
Lib Democrats who had "principles" and helped bring us austerity and didn't have enough principles to call for a general election when referendum was made preferred to stay in power. Decided it was a great idea to call a lot of their supporters knuckle dragging racists.THe rest of teh country as somebody put it on here "Couldn't give a F**K about the North" about sums it up.

People judge by their lifes and I have seen statements about best time ever etc. on being members and for them it has. For many others it hasn't. If you struggling, work 0 hours contracts, schools, housing health and food, please explain to me why when given the chance you would vote for more of the same. Even though you know nothing is going to change a part of you hopes it will.

So now we have the blame game stupid for believing the lies people hoping that Brexit voters will enjoy their even worse life. Its suits their agenda and continues from Thatchers The Tax Dodger "There is no such thing as society" It is ironic that people are now complaining about what things will be more difficult when basically they didn't give a fig before.

The result was met with surprise, to a large section it was never a surprise.
For Labour they had been warned and took no notice, London luvvies that haven't a clue. To get ex Shipyard Workers & Miners to vote Tory takes a lot of doing. Even their own report has shown the direction it has been going in. So they vote a staunch remainer who thinks the Jewish question is Labours biggest problem and for a lot is regarded as Phony Tony MK2.

So when people ask how you can inflict what they believe is wrong on the country ask why they have inflicted harm on the same parts of the country.

We now have an economy based on services cant reskill manufacturing and there wont be a tear in the eye of many north of Watford when the Financial Services jobs move off into the sunset.
The economy is based on House Prices and Debt, the politicians only interest is power so still throwing free money at people. The people that are calling Brexit voters stupid are the same people who dont give a fig about debt as long as they get their free money.

Patriotism your having a laugh.

The truth hurts but for a lot of people thats why they voted, certainly not for BJ or beleive a word he says.

I work for a US owned company and every time there is unpalatable news it is attributed to our owners. I think the EU suffered from the same problem, they got blamed for everything rightly or wrongly.

My dad voted Leave because of paperwork suffocating businesses. Given that EU imports and exports will now require way more paperwork than before I am not convinced he made this decision from an informed position.

@AnnnaBananna, thank you for a considered reply to the question.

I know that the 'Turkey will be joining the EU' was quite a powerful Leave trope at the time and lots of people were influenced by it. However, there was also quite a lot of info around about why Turkey would not, in fact, be allowed to join (not least the fact that the UK had a veto). Can I ask if you considered any of this info?

But voting for Brexit was the only power I had to effect change on those issues
I'm sorry but I don't understand how Brexit can make women safer? Why do you think that?

Can I ask if you considered any of this info?
Based on the evidence at the time I was convinced there was a reasonable prospect of Turkey joining the EU. It wasn’t certain that Turkey would join but it was a significant enough risk that it factored into my decision to vote Leave. I knew the UK could veto Turkey joining but I wasn’t convinced they would exercise that power.

I'm sorry but I don't understand how Brexit can make women safer? Why do you think that?
The EU was allowing economic migrants to approach our border and threatening to force us to let them in. They were also considering allowing Turkey to join the EU. Both would have caused an influx of men with non-Western attitudes towards women. There were already a number of these men in my local area and I had seen how they behaved, their disrespectful behaviour towards women and the assaults they committed. There were also many high profile cases in the news where migrants had assaulted European women. I didn’t want any more men who behaved like that. I wanted my sisters and daughters to feel safe in our own country. Brexit meant that we couldn’t be forced to allow migrants or men from Turkey into the UK.

The EU was allowing economic migrants to approach our border and threatening to force us to let them in. They were also considering allowing Turkey to join the EU.
What? That is just not true. If you are talking about non-EU refugees then our being in the EU doesn't actually make any difference. As for Turkey, they were not "considering" its entry into the EU, they were blocking it - and as a member of the EU we had (considerable) power to continue to block Turkey's entry. You seem to think that we had no say when we were still members? That's just false. If you are worried about immigration from non-Western countries I am even more surprised by your decision. So you have no problem with more immigration from India (which is what they are asking for in exchange for the trade deals we need)?

Thanks for sharing your perspective @AnnnaBananna, I hadn't considered equality between men and women to be a brexit issue. Although I imagine now that issue will just shift to immigrants from different countries with similar views on women? I wondered what the government could do to support better community cohesion and integration.