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Brexit

Westminstenders: Governing by U-Turn

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 07/09/2020 01:45

Johnson's determination to get brexit done and to have 'a clean break from Europe' on terms which involve other countries happily returning fishing rights they bought from us (without recompense for the said previous purchase) in addition to the EU accepting terms they don't feel create a level playingfield and risk their economic future make any deal impossible. Our demands simply aren't achievable.

The alternative is adherence to the Withdrawal Agreement in which we are unable to bail out businesses via state aid and to have no deal which creates huge trade barriers and tarriffs overnight and massive customs red tape which we simply are not yet prepared for because the systems for running this are running behind schedule. This would lead to massive food shortages and Brexit lorry parks throughout the country for the forseeable future.

Johnson's latest bright idea is that he seems to think he can avoid chaos by a strategy which would cause even more chaos by deliberately reneging on the withdrawal agreement which is an international agreement just months after throwing a hissy fit for China doing exactly the same thing. This wouldn't just be hypocritical but would make a mockery of our credibility internationally and potentially endanger every other international agreement we've currently in place because well, why should anyone else stick to an agreement with the UK.

We could face years of legal wrangles with god knows which countries and businesses suing the British government.

But y'know Johnson thinks this is a sensible strategy and a cracking plan to force Brussels to blink first rather than actually take the subject seriously and do something in the country's interest rather than prevent Johnson from damaging his internal reputation with leave voters and because he thinks this is the correct hill to die on to prove he doesn't govern by u-turn. Johnson's ego seems more important to him than feeding the nation and having an international reputation.

Or he could do another u-turn.

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Peregrina · 10/09/2020 20:22

There was nothing dramatic about what I said - I suspect you don't like the expression ratting on an agreement because it's true. It sounded so much nicer when they tried to say that they were breaking the law in a limited and specific way. After some humbug about how it was done in a rush - a rush wholly of this Government's making, with them all being too lazy to read what they were signing up for, and some with no intention of keeping the law.

Jason118 · 10/09/2020 20:23

Starmer won't say anything in case it slows down Johnson's spade work.

Peregrina · 10/09/2020 20:23

Starmer has more sense than to fall for Boris's games.. He's the one person that scumbag Boris is afraid of.

HateIsNotGood · 10/09/2020 20:24

Pissing people off is definately a Tactic Jason, as well as 'silence' is too. Not sure what you are used to negotiating but both of the above are well-used tactics, Starmer's is two-fold, it pisses people off, in a very PA way.

Mistigri · 10/09/2020 20:26

Ffs sake don't feed em

Why waste your time arguing with people without a moral compass who just want to get a rise out of you.

When it comes to breaking the law and breaching treaty agreements there is no debate to be had. There's just right and wrong. Arguing about it suggests that you think there is an argument to be had. There isn't.

Peregrina · 10/09/2020 20:26

I so hope you are right about younger people from a Unionist background shifting towards a unified Ireland.

Since NI voted Remain, I assume that must have included some Unionists. Does anyone know how the demographics of the Remain/Leave vote split?

Jason118 · 10/09/2020 20:27

No, the uk govt behaviour is not a well known tactic to achieve a deal. It's a tactic to break an agreement and blame others. Starmer however is being smart.

OchonAgusOchonO · 10/09/2020 20:29

@HateIsNotGood - Yes I do Ochon - just a little manouvre that's caused quite a ripple - it's a tactic.

Which suggests you either have no moral compass or an inability to understand the implications. I'm not sure which is worse.

Peregrina · 10/09/2020 20:29

Is pissing off people a tactic? We have had people try that on when we have been buying and selling houses in the past. The end result was, they didn't get the house - maybe they were cowards and wanted to cop out, but didn't have the guts to say so.

ListeningQuietly · 10/09/2020 20:31

Peregrina
Unionists voted leave, Reublicans voted remain.
And then Arlene sold them down the river
www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36615507

Peregrina · 10/09/2020 20:32

And it's not as though it was someone else's agreement that they would like to re-open negotiations on. For me the best hope now lies with the Irish-American lobby: that's the deal the Brexiters really want, they don't give a stuff about the EU.

HateIsNotGood · 10/09/2020 20:32

Sorry Peregrina but vocabulary such as "ratting on" and "nicer" are more suited to Dramas, not full-on negotiations.

You got to be a fly on the wall, like yoikes emoti, to really know what's going on - other than that we're all just speculating for now.

Don't wear a hat then, just make sure you hang on and breathe deeply, coz like it or not, we're all going for a 'ride'.

ListeningQuietly · 10/09/2020 20:33

Squirrels taste like chicken I gather

Peregrina · 10/09/2020 20:34

LQ - I suspect it's more nuanced than that - I did wonder if it was the young Unionists who voted Remain because otherwise it should have been slightly more for Leave.

Jason118 · 10/09/2020 20:35

It's not a negotiation - it's an abortion of the WA, and as a ride for the UK it's downhill all the way.

ListeningQuietly · 10/09/2020 20:37

Peregrina
More analysis of Northern Ireland 2016 voting
www.qub.ac.uk/brexit/Brexitfilestore/Filetoupload,728121,en.pdf
remember the segregated schools have a significant impact

Peregrina · 10/09/2020 20:38

'Ratting on' makes it clear what sort of behaviour it is, and it's very fitting for someone like Johnson who likes to posture. It's very much of a piece with his behaviour - sacked twice for lying, doesn't know how many children he has sired, or won't say, totally unfaithful in relationships - and this is the man who represents the country, and it's a bit of a joke to you.

I feel strongly about the GFA - that was a hard fought for agreement which ended bloodshed, and to the right wing Tories it's just a huge joke, which they think they can throw away.

Peregrina · 10/09/2020 20:47

An interesting analysis, LQ.

I have a modest understanding of the Protestant Catholic split, with DH's coming from a Catholic family in the North West. I did not 'convert' and we didn't bring the children up as Catholics - and it caused ructions with the older members of his family. Not with the younger members - they have mostly rejected religion entirely.

HateIsNotGood · 10/09/2020 20:50

I already know, prior to posting here, that my views are not welcome - however we are all in the same boat.

You've all spent the last few months telling each other lots of jokes about what you imagine Brexit voters are and about the UK Govt handling of Covid, Brexit, etc. etc. All the while saying "where are all the Brexiit voters now?"

Well, here's one, been here all the time - just nothing much going on with Brexit so best let you get on with it.

Now more is going on, so I've come aboard. Maybe you'd rather I didn't and that posters who voted for Brexit went somewhere else?

Peregrina · 10/09/2020 20:54

Well I am glad that you think reneging on International agreements is all fine and dandy. Maybe another time this Government will rip up an agreement which affects you personally, and then I wonder how much you will enjoy the ride.

ListeningQuietly · 10/09/2020 20:57

Solid foundations

Westminstenders: Governing by U-Turn
DGRossetti · 10/09/2020 20:58

I wonder if the Bar Council can censure members that counsel lawbreakers ?

ICouldHaveCheckedFirst · 10/09/2020 21:00

HateIs I'm glad you are here. Can you explain why breaking an international Treaty is acceptable? I can't work it out myself.

BigChocFrenzy · 10/09/2020 21:02

BJ is breaking a WA that he praised as "oven-ready" in the Tory GE manifesto

If he wanted a No Deal Brexit, he only had to refuse to sign a WA,
instead of signing and then breaking the agreement a few months later

He is a liar, an incompetent and a crook, who is making the UK into a pariah.
all because he cocked up and can't admit his Brexit is a fucking disaster

Breaking international law is the kind of tactic that Iraq or North Korea might do
BJ has just trashed the reputation the UK has built up over many decades

BigChocFrenzy · 10/09/2020 21:04

There is no kind of business deal where the tactic of openly breaking the law is a sensible tactic to put pressure on an opponent

Any Brexiter planning to try that when negotiating to buy a house or a car ?

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