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Brexit

Westminstenders: Governing by U-Turn

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 07/09/2020 01:45

Johnson's determination to get brexit done and to have 'a clean break from Europe' on terms which involve other countries happily returning fishing rights they bought from us (without recompense for the said previous purchase) in addition to the EU accepting terms they don't feel create a level playingfield and risk their economic future make any deal impossible. Our demands simply aren't achievable.

The alternative is adherence to the Withdrawal Agreement in which we are unable to bail out businesses via state aid and to have no deal which creates huge trade barriers and tarriffs overnight and massive customs red tape which we simply are not yet prepared for because the systems for running this are running behind schedule. This would lead to massive food shortages and Brexit lorry parks throughout the country for the forseeable future.

Johnson's latest bright idea is that he seems to think he can avoid chaos by a strategy which would cause even more chaos by deliberately reneging on the withdrawal agreement which is an international agreement just months after throwing a hissy fit for China doing exactly the same thing. This wouldn't just be hypocritical but would make a mockery of our credibility internationally and potentially endanger every other international agreement we've currently in place because well, why should anyone else stick to an agreement with the UK.

We could face years of legal wrangles with god knows which countries and businesses suing the British government.

But y'know Johnson thinks this is a sensible strategy and a cracking plan to force Brussels to blink first rather than actually take the subject seriously and do something in the country's interest rather than prevent Johnson from damaging his internal reputation with leave voters and because he thinks this is the correct hill to die on to prove he doesn't govern by u-turn. Johnson's ego seems more important to him than feeding the nation and having an international reputation.

Or he could do another u-turn.

OP posts:
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BigChocFrenzy · 07/09/2020 13:48

DG For me, David Frost will always be the guy who got the Nixon interviews

The others are all imposters

BigChocFrenzy · 07/09/2020 13:51

The Brexit aspirations have changed from Singapore on Thames, to Mumbai on Thames, to now Pyongyang on Thames
(N Korean capital)

quiteathome · 07/09/2020 13:55

Do Ireland want reunification with the North? My Irish friend seems to think that a lot in the south are not keen on that idea.

One child's school is very strict Covid wise at the moment. After 6 months of wanting to be at school DC was in tears this morning at the prospect of going in. (I am giving it a few more days. And hoping the school relaxes slightly.)

Lidl has an app, you can get £5 off a £25 spend. So for stocking up it is quite useful.

yoikes · 07/09/2020 14:08

Well....
Just had a call to go and pick ds2 up from school...
He's been in for a total of 7 days.
Y7s dropping like flies apparently:(

OchonAgusOchonO · 07/09/2020 14:08

@quiteathome - Do Ireland want reunification with the North? My Irish friend seems to think that a lot in the south are not keen on that idea.

Some do, some don't. I think a majority would support the idea in principle but would be very worried about the economic impact. A small majority in favour in NI would also probably result in violence from loyalists.

Personally, I would like to see a united Ireland. However, I don't want it to come about because the UK ripped apart the GFA and a united Ireland becomes the lesser of 2 evils. I would like to see a natural and gradual movement towards the idea and a very large majority in NI in favour of the idea. Unless we bring hearts with us, it is unlikely to be successful.

yoikes · 07/09/2020 14:09

Obviously I've already picked him up and he's snuggled up in bed....

yoikes · 07/09/2020 14:11

A question for those more in the know than I....

Will the fact the UK (WM) has basically left NI to sink or swim mean some loyalists will think more favourably about reunification than they would have say 5 years ago??

colouringindoors · 07/09/2020 14:13

depressed pmk

DGRossetti · 07/09/2020 14:15

Do Ireland want reunification with the North? My Irish friend seems to think that a lot in the south are not keen on that idea.

It's long been pointed out that the misty Emerald Eyes of sentiment around a united Ireland tend to have a nasty shock when exposed to the harsh reality of the Republic having to accommodate the six counties. However the main concern has been economic.

It may yet be a cosmic hint that we are now about to celebrate 30 years of German unification.

If the economic pains of unification could be addressed, then things might be on.

A united and independent Ireland off the West Coast of Great Britain would be a shock to the rUK. Especially given it's that tiny bit closer to the eastern seaboard of the US.

OchonAgusOchonO · 07/09/2020 14:15

@yoikes - Will the fact the UK (WM) has basically left NI to sink or swim mean some loyalists will think more favourably about reunification than they would have say 5 years ago??

Quite likely but that is exactly the scenario I, and many others, don't want. It would be pockets rather than hearts making the decision and would, I think, be an unstable solution.

DGRossetti · 07/09/2020 14:19

Personally, I would like to see a united Ireland. However, I don't want it to come about because the UK ripped apart the GFA and a united Ireland becomes the lesser of 2 evils. I would like to see a natural and gradual movement towards the idea and a very large majority in NI in favour of the idea.

I'm afraid generally, history is against you there Sad. Very few small nations have been afforded the luxury of time when it comes to seismic changes.

Of course, if the UK decides to piss all over the GFA and WA, then I think the time it takes Spain to decide the treaty of Utrecht is something they can "move on with" will be measure in milliseconds, if not nanoseconds.

mrslaughan · 07/09/2020 14:20

Yoikes - sorry to hear that DS temp is up and down - but I can't in good conscience send him back unless I know he is recovered.

DD school mums are driving me crazy - so think the kids should be social distancing (apparently it's not required in the guidelines 😳) - and now on top of all the book clubs etc - we now have a family picnic being organised. We won't be going - but given we are in a hotspot how long will school remain open?

yoikes · 07/09/2020 14:25

Ds2 wil be off until he feels better, however long that may be.
Sounds like lots of Y7s ill/being sent home.
They can't take the chance.

DGRossetti · 07/09/2020 14:28

It's your choice MNetters.

I can either continue posting about Labour in Scotland. Or there's some riveting new research on the lifecycle of the political views of deep sea extremophiles as reported by David Icke that's coming out soon.

It's hard to tell which is less relevant right now.

SCOTLAND’s only Labour MP said that London should ask for its “money back” when campaigning against Scottish independence, it has emerged.

www.thenational.scot/news/18702281.ian-murray-told-londoners-demand-money-back-scots/

HoneysuckIejasmine · 07/09/2020 14:28

@DGRossetti

Personally, I would like to see a united Ireland. However, I don't want it to come about because the UK ripped apart the GFA and a united Ireland becomes the lesser of 2 evils. I would like to see a natural and gradual movement towards the idea and a very large majority in NI in favour of the idea.

I'm afraid generally, history is against you there Sad. Very few small nations have been afforded the luxury of time when it comes to seismic changes.

Of course, if the UK decides to piss all over the GFA and WA, then I think the time it takes Spain to decide the treaty of Utrecht is something they can "move on with" will be measure in milliseconds, if not nanoseconds.

Yes, and then who will we go crying to who won't say "serves you right"?
HoneysuckIejasmine · 07/09/2020 14:29

New kids and staff coming down ill isn't unusual. NQT Flu is a well known ailment too.

Hope for negative tests and quick recoveries all round.

DGRossetti · 07/09/2020 14:29

Yes, and then who will we go crying to who won't say "serves you right"?

Be interesting to see if one Donald Trump is going to abandon centuries of US antipathy to the British Empire in that case ...

yoikes · 07/09/2020 14:30

Can't get a test...his symptoms don't meet uk testing criteria.

🙄

DGRossetti · 07/09/2020 14:31

I know it's a bit Janet and John, but if the UK started reneging on treaties, then Spain might have a case for invading Gibraltar in order to secure it's own borders from a rogue state. They could even ask the US for some military advisors.

yoikes · 07/09/2020 14:31

I think its back to school germs, too, although I did wonder if it might not be as bad this year with all the hand washing and hand sanitizer!

OchonAgusOchonO · 07/09/2020 14:37

@DGRossetti - I'm afraid generally, history is against you there sad. Very few small nations have been afforded the luxury of time when it comes to seismic changes.

Yes, I know. However, the GFA, if complied with, would have put us in a reasonable position to achieve a peaceful reunification.

DGRossetti · 07/09/2020 14:40

[quote OchonAgusOchonO]**@DGRossetti* - I'm afraid generally, history is against you there sad. Very few small nations have been afforded the luxury of time when it comes to seismic changes.*

Yes, I know. However, the GFA, if complied with, would have put us in a reasonable position to achieve a peaceful reunification.[/quote]
You're assuming there was/is a political will for that in England.

If you want to swing the telescope around, this could be seen as the slow dawning realisation of the English elite that they have well and truly fucked the Union. In which case beware the mindset of the cornered.

FatCatThinCat · 07/09/2020 14:40

So the UK have been sneakily trying to get Ireland on their side by offering to 'facilitate' Irish lorries using the UK as a land bridge. Is this a rebranded 'support us or we'll make sure you starve' policy as advocated by Priti Patel some time ago?

ListeningQuietly · 07/09/2020 14:41

If the UK is known for breaking agreements it has signed up to
once its alone outside the EU
it will get VERY buffeted

prettybird · 07/09/2020 14:43

SCOTLAND’s only Labour MP said that London should ask for its “money back” when campaigning against Scottish independence, it has emerged.

That cuts both ways: Scotland could demand all the oil money back Wink

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