Westminstenders: Where are we now?

[RedToothBrush]

Twenty thousand people
Cross Bösebrücke
Fingers are crossed
Just in case
Walking the dead

Where are we now, where are we now?
The moment you know, you know, you know

Just that.

Don't really want to reflect more than that right now.

"letting the lorries into the UK without checks
is pointless unless they can get a backload
that will work with the delays"

Listening The sheer volume of traffic is comcerning - 55% of fruit & veg consumed in the UK is imported from the EU, mostly via Dover

Backload can't e.g. be frozen meat or meat products, because the Uk likely won't be on the EU database of allowed countries

The lorries could return empty - transport costs would rocket, but I'm not sure where else the Uk could get fresh produce from.

.

Complete disregard for this memorial to PC Keith Palmer

He was unarmed and died stopping a knife-wielding terrorist from entering the Palace of Westminister
That was only in 2017 and forgotten already ?

James O'Brienn@mrjamesob*

My favourite politicians are the ones who vote to close libraries
but claim that statues of slavers are of immense educational importance.

PMK

Marches in the UK have proved to be spectacularly useless in the last couple of decades.

Agree.
And there is always the tendency to describe peope on those marches as hooligans forgetting that 99.9% of them marched peacefully.
I noticed too that the Police told the BLM protesters to not turn up but I havent heard the same message for the far right. Again.

"We might have had one, if we'd not had that damn stupid election, for which all Opposition parties should hang their heads in shame for allowing it to happen."

iirc Corbyn didn't want an election and held out for some time. It was Jo Swinson and Nicola Sturgeon who wanted it.
Corbyn was called a coward and a fence-sitter.

Of course, at the time, 'No one is talking about leaving the Single Market' as Daniel Hannan said, so people really did think we could have our cake and eat it - another round of concessions for the UK.

Tbf, a lot of people who voted for Brexit, voted for a soft brexit,not a hard brexit.
Unfortunately, they forgot that with voting NO they couldn't let politicians know what sort of brexit they wanted.
OIt's the same issue woth people saying they voted tory/labour because they wanted A and are vehementally against B that is part of the tory.labour manifesto. They always look surpise when B happens and say 'butI didn't vote for that'. Well actually mate, you did.

It was Jo Swinson and Nicola Sturgeon who wanted it.

Which worked well for Nicola, who obviously read the room in Scotland better, and a disaster for Jo Swinson, who went and lost her own seat. Nicola, of course, had no seat to lose in that election, but it may have helped her be more objective about the Scottish position. Still, Labour had to agree to hold the election - the SNP and LDs didn't have a majority on their own. Since Corbyn had sat on the fence for 3 1/2 years over Brexit, how much more uncomfortable would have been a few more months fence sitting?

Tbf, a lot of people who voted for Brexit, voted for a soft brexit,not a hard brexit.

Back in 2016, yes. By last year's election, it was pretty clear which way things were going to go, and people should have been able to get the measure of what was likely with Boris Johnson (nominally) in charge and with the dirty tricks like the illegal prorogation of Parliament and all the 'die in a ditch stuff'. So those who put the Tories in, in 2019 knew that they were voting for a hard Brexit, and as you say, this is what they voted for. If they, like the farmers, are disappointed that a USA trade deal wrecks their industry, well, why did you put your trust in Boris?

I don't know about the election happening early being a bad thing.
It is now clear who was in charge with Brexit and COVID. Clear who hasn't organised trade deals, who hasn't organised stockpiling of PPE, who hasn't consulted experts.

If it takes 4 years of living under this to get change for a lot longer, I don't know if that is a bad thing. Assuming of course we can still vote...

My fear was that Corbyn would get in and be lumbered with Brexit but it turns out he would have also been lumbered without any stockpile for COVID and a fragmented health system and underfunded schools which has proven shambolic but at least has highlighted why austerity has been harmful.

I don't think looking back we should don rose tinted glasses. Let these guys own it for 4 years and show people why it was a terrible mistake. If this is something we need to learn from, as we have said multiple times over the years, it does need to get bad at all levels of society. It's not what any of us wanted to happen but IMO let's roll with it and look to remind and point out how we got here.

Just where do I start with this?

Ah well, they are only 4 years too late Red. They are called The Daily Fail after all . Reaping what you so only counts when they are at the receiving end though...won't be long!

In fact my friend laughed out loud when she read they were attacking the police with home made missiles and said "but why are they attacking the police? They are on their side!" which sadly says a lot for our govt's line of "we don't have a racism problem in the UK".

I don't know, Red.

In a way, it's all so predictable, it feels as though it's already been said.

Indeed, I think it all has been said on these threads.

It's like 'Cassandra Corner' here.

Let these guys own it for 4 years and show people why it was a terrible mistake.

I agree, but they can do an awful lot of damage in four years. We have to make sure that they don't manage to pin the blame on anyone else.

I agree Peregrina and Je Suis I just hope people wake up.
The other day on Facebook people were rabbiting on about schools being closed. Someone made a comment the the govt couldn't afford it - I pointed out that we are the 5th wealthiest nation in the world - and plenty other countries afforded it. I inevitably got the "but..." to which I replied it's about priorities, to go and have a look at HS2's cost and think about how much difference that money would make towards educating THEIR kids......
My husband thought I missed a truck as I didn't mention trident as well.....

Anyway I am resolved to be a quiet but persistent activist on these things on Facebook - it's probably no match for Dom's bots.......

But what was interesting about all that was how conditioned people are to not being able to change things, and how austerity has conditioned the to think the country is poor and we can't afford ..... well anything really. And I would say this group is a very middle class group...

MrsL I suspect we will hear a lot more of that as the weeks go on and we see UK is one of the worst affected from COVID and then Brexit. People will be told that the financial "care" has all but bankrupted the country which is why we can't afford nice things.

It is interesting watching Bozo tie himself in knots on racism though. One minute we can't whitewash our dodgy history and Chrurchill is the bestest Great Britain and we don't have a problem with racism, then racist thugs from his own side attack police with over 100 arrests and he "condemns racist thuggery". He needs to get off that fence and admit there is a problem.

De-ja-vu on so many topics since he has been PM.

This guy has literally written a book on the govt's COVID failings.This sentiment stuck out as something I've been trying to get through to my mathematical modelling friend (other than the shit data issue) "What he does know, from the published reports of Sage meetings, is that scientists were “trying to be as sensitive to economic issues as they were to health issues”. That, he says, “is a dangerous place to be” because it compromises the ability of the advisory group to protect health." www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jun/14/the-lancets-editor-the-uk-response-to-coronavirus-is-the-greatest-science-policy-failure-for-a-generation

Ridiculous the Tory papers raising BJ as some sort of hero knight on a (naturally) white grey horse charging to smash the 2m rule and lockdown
..... all of which he Cummings ordered

Very interesting article.

I agree very much that scientists... “trying to be as sensitive to economic issues as they were to health issues....is a dangerous place to be” because it compromises the ability of the advisory group to protect health

The Health SAGE meetings should be advising on health - it's up to a responsible Government to make the hard economic decisions as a result of that advice.

Yes, I know

At least the FM acknowledges that they may well have made mistakes and has already said that there will be an inquiry about what happened when to learn lessons. Scotland was also constrained by the decisions made in WM as it doesn't have control over borders or welfare and WM holds the purse strings (the Scottish Government has to run a balanced budget and can't run up a debt let alone a deficit).

On the subject of scientific advise and the countries response

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jun/14/prime-minister-has-not-hosted-a-cobra-emergency-committee-for-over-a-month?CMP=ShareiOSAppp_Other

Marches in the UK have proved to be spectacularly useless in the last couple of decades.

Marches are only effective if a government listens.

But the #metoo and BLM movements show that direct action can still have effect.

In fact I think the BLM movement has drawn inspiration from #metoo as a example of what can be achieved.

Marches can be affirming and enormously useful for the preservation of your sanity and well-being - all necessary to build your resilience and continuing resistance.

You look around - and it is hard not to feel joy when you see the people, so many of them, so various, so beautiful in their hope, who are with you on the journey.

You realise you are not alone.

I, personally, think they achieve something.

Sadly, it may not be the absolute change we want - but I do believe they have value.

Resilience needs to be nurtured and fed, just as much as your body needs food. And hope. And Hope matters - particularly when you know it's going to be a particularly long, grim journey. And I also think there comes a point where hoping is itself an act of resistance.

So, I accept there is something absolutely galling about defeat after all the passion, commitment and solidarity of all those marches. And that defeat is tragically real. But I also think there is a residuum there - something that is unextinguishable & valuable.