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Brexit

Westminstenders: Where are we now?

966 replies

RedToothBrush · 12/06/2020 21:21

Twenty thousand people
Cross Bösebrücke
Fingers are crossed
Just in case
Walking the dead

Where are we now, where are we now?
The moment you know, you know, you know

Just that.

Don't really want to reflect more than that right now.

OP posts:
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59
DrBlackbird · 21/06/2020 11:23

Lonelyplanet it is a considerable help that the MSM in the UK rarely reports on the internal chasms and petty infighting of the Tory party, but any tension no matter how slight or even healthy in the Labour Party would be front page - and highly critical - news.

It'll be interesting to see what Cummings does to pull his boss back up in the ratings. Their stars are tied together so if Cummings wants to stay to ensure his 'great transformation' he better pay closer attention to his focus groups.

DGRossetti · 21/06/2020 11:43

Dilbert knows how government works ... (think about T&T)

Westminstenders: Where are we now?
DGRossetti · 21/06/2020 11:57

Hard to know what is more worrying. That Tory MPs thought Johnson would be competent given the body of evidence of his casual incompetence over the whole of his career. Or that it took this long into his complete mismanagement of the pandemic for this realisation to sink in.

If you are a Tory, by definition, there is only one thing you care about.

Yourself.

So any thoughts Tory MPs had around Johnsons competence - or otherwise - would have been seen through the prism of "how does this affect me ?". And I think that until Covid created a nationwide lens to view the government though, they wouldn't have been at all bothered.

The only good thing out of this, is we know the Tories will happily lose a leader rather than an election. And Boris - as one who has sharpened that axe himself - damn well knows that. So maybe one reason he is beginning to look that bit more haunted, it's because he can imagine - in exquisite detail - exactly how they will come for him.

That's one of the problems people can face when they try to shape things in their own image. They are neither pretty enough to deserve it, or smart enough to change it. And Boris ascendence will only have laid the ground work for a new generation.

I say it again. The UK has fallen to "big man syndrome" without a man big enough to fill it.

(Anyone care to play a sweepstakes on how long before The Usual Suspects rush in to tell me how wrong I am ? With their scissors and cross stitch ?)

yoikes · 21/06/2020 12:08

Interesting.
I have been telling ds1 that boris won't last the year...

DGRossetti · 21/06/2020 12:17

Since Boris likes to play the culture monster, here's one for him to ruminate on:

A fitting quote that was written by Marcus Aurelius from his meditations seems most fitting for Titus of the Flavian Dynasty and his father Vespasian that ruled a century earlier.

“The gods gave me a father who ruled over me and rid me of any trace of arrogance and showed me that one can live in a palace without bodyguards, extravagant attire, chandeliers, statues, and other luxuries. He taught me that it is possible to live instead pretty much in the manner of a private citizen without losing any of the dignity and authority a ruler must possess to discharge his imperial duties effectively.”

DGRossetti · 21/06/2020 12:20

and something terrible in Reading Sad

lonelyplanetmum · 21/06/2020 12:22

I don't think out matters if Johnson doesn't last the year. As DrB says if Labour had these problems it would be unsurvivable. However with the Tories its grist to the mill or whatever that expression is.

It's been mentioned before on these threads but the way the electorate hold the main parties to completely different standards is fascinating.

Chasms, infighting, stabbing leaders in the back seem to be a positive in the Tory party but are disastrous elsewhere. Even Johnson's martial infidelity, moving into Downing street whilst married to some-one else, is a cause for celebration. Yet Ed Miliband's conventional happy (un)married fidelity was seen as an electoral hurdle.

My theory is that it's do with the grant British sense of class and hierarchy. The Tories are the natural guv'nor and are (falsely) perceived as looking after the serfs. So it's ok for Johnson and colleagues to misbehave in many ways. Internecine strife, ganging up on the leader, secret suppressed reports, dishonesty, infidelity etc. The guv'nors are different to us you see. A lot of them are ' a bit of a lad bless 'em ' - but that's ok.

Yet the other parties are lower down the hierarchy. They are more like the workers who've done well, or middle management or the union rep. So they are held to higher standards.They mustn't get above themselves in any way.

Also the drama, backstabbing, affairs, resignations somehow suits our thirst for soap opera. A steady deliberate, considered, stable option just isn't interesting. Sorry haven't posted much for ages and all I can do is be ultra cynical when I do.

DGRossetti · 21/06/2020 12:31

If the Tories have decided Boris is a liability, they may well hang onto him as a handy scapegoat for all their failings thus far - and beyond. With the delicious idea he'd be aware but unable to act. (Who remembers Theresa May being pinned down as more and more things went wrong ?).

As long as Boris saving Boris works out well for enough people, he can stay. But right now, I fail to see how he could save anything.

At the moment, there's an artificial parochialism to UK politics - obvious enforced by Covid. It will be interesting when things open up again, and Boris has to bestride the world stage once more.

yoikes · 21/06/2020 12:37

Poor trumpy only had 6000 at his campaign re launch rally in Tulsa....

How sad Grin

Peregrina · 21/06/2020 12:48

Didn't the presence of Farage at the Trump rally make up for the lack of attendance?

Surely one Farage is worth 1,000 others? Grin

HesterThrale · 21/06/2020 12:57

I expect some Tories, who aren’t that keen on BJ, voted for him to be leader thinking that the public (inexplicably, in my view) like him, would vote for him and win them an election.
Then after, they’d be able to do the job of getting rid of him. COVID kind of delayed their plan, maybe.

ListeningQuietly · 21/06/2020 13:06

I think a lot of Tories thought he'd make a great figurehead
without realising quite how thick he was
and how much control Cummings would have

serves them right

Peregrina · 21/06/2020 13:13

What a truly frightening article applecatchers.

ResIpsaLoquiturInterAlia · 21/06/2020 13:17

Can’t resist going a bit off piste on a folic here (so please be kind) but gosh USA is such a basket case banana republic!!! I am desperately trying my upmost to be impartial as technically being UK neutral and no (direct) connection with USA but can things get any worst there, with a liability self and family/mob/gang serving “president” in “charge” and essentially everything weaponised and politicised because of the small matter of forthcoming polarised elections given that the orange one is evidently unimpeachable snd if I may use more colourful language, how messed up the whole situation is out there with world record Covid impacted fatalities, historical cyclical race relations civil wars etc etc causing ripples across the Atlantic despite the distance and huge cultural differences here. Thank goodness we in the UK have some more reasoned and logical intelligence to not import these ills across the pond! USA potentially has the most potential but it is great for the others now to level up if only things are not also relatively unideal in the UK with Covid and Brexit issues to endure or optimise depending on your viewpoint!

So bringing this back to tie up with Westminster, Boris who "nearly took a direct hit for the team" and his side kick Cummings (and goings I make the rules for you to follow) is arguably in marginally better position as we are still some what evidently more civilised and don't have mob rule by law enforcement (do note much of it - violent crime stateside is black on black as analysed systematically using criminal statistics there for example and the inequities are less apparent here in super tolerant multi cultural Britannia former mother of all empires! The past is the past as tomorrow is a new day so shape it your way!

Rant over and stay safe people as still middle of UK Covid pandemic with record daily fatalities so don't relax too much only to be another sad statistic! Peace out!

DGRossetti · 21/06/2020 13:29

Poor trumpy only had 6000 at his campaign re launch rally in Tulsa....

I saw some suggestions that the bookings had been trolled and artificially inflated ... which o course plays to the ego ..

DrBlackbird · 21/06/2020 13:42

But he's always attracted the Tory MPs and Tory apparatchik for inexplicable reasons. His talks were the only ones that anyone queued for at Tory conferences. I think they saw him as more than a figurehead and more as a saviour

Agree on not realising how thick he was because he's managed to generate this aura of cleverness with his Latin quotes etc. Ditto on Cummings on both how much control and how his towering intellect is as yet to be made manifest.

Would agree it serves them right but for the painful fact that we are all suffering because our current leadership.

BigChocFrenzy · 21/06/2020 13:53

Even if the Tories do decide to spit out BJ, to change feet,
they'd want him to stay long enough to take the blame for the past & likely future COVID cockups
and for the No Deal Brexit consequences

So maybe Februrary if the ports get logjammed, but after Easter if not

Of course, he could always find it too much hassle and just walk
I've thought all along that he intended to laze through being PM and just enjoy the perks & fanfare, as he did being London Mayor

That wouldn't have worked long even without COVID and Brexit - and the latter was 100% forseaable

DGRossetti · 21/06/2020 13:56

Just a reminder - from 5 months ago - of what will be repeated across the board when Boris and the Boys (re)start their farewell to the "Great" in Britain tour around the world ...

Hopes of a flurry of post-Brexit trade deals were dashed this week after the Australian government rejected a UK offer that included visa-free work and travel between the two countries.

Trade minister Simon Birmingham said full free movement would not be accepted because it could cause an exodus of highly trained workers to the UK and an influx of unskilled British workers to Sydney and Melbourne.

Last year, ministers in New Zealand voiced similar fears of a brain drain.

(contd)

www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/first-blow-for-post-brexit-britain-as-australia-rejects-trade-deal/07/01/

DGRossetti · 21/06/2020 13:57

Of course, he could always find it too much hassle and just walk

So could Theresa. But didn't.

BigChocFrenzy · 21/06/2020 13:57

He wins - or at least used to win - votes from people that other Tory politicians could never reach
He won London and won a large majority in a Ge

That gave him godlike powers to Tory activists and the membership
They only care about winning
.... and they'll be utterly ruthless the moment they judge he becomes a liability - ask MrsT's ghost.

BigChocFrenzy · 21/06/2020 13:58

May has a strong sense of duty;
BJ has a strong sense of self

BigChocFrenzy · 21/06/2020 13:59

Lewis Goodall@lewisgoodall (BBC Newsnight)

INCYMI report from me about one of the most deprived schools in England,
trying to work out how they can open in Sept
(with little information from the centre)

whilst trying to prevent some of the poorest kids, lose even more ground.

https://mobile.twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1274319027381428224

And the piece explores something I’ve really noticed:

in schools in more deprived areas, parents seem to be more sceptical of the information they’re hearing and ergo more reluctant to believe reopening is safe.

It poses a particular challenge for the heads of those schools.

DGRossetti · 21/06/2020 14:07

May has a strong sense of duty; BJ has a strong sense of self

It's interesting to remember that at some point last year, the post of "interim Prime Minister" was briefly floated with the clear intention of dumping May, but installing a scapegoat to attract the Brexshit and take the curse off Boris before his coronation. There was a time when it seemed everyone was interested in being the next but one Tory leader.

I wonder how much Boris wishes that had happened now ? I suspect the plan floundered because the various contenders couldn't be persuaded to trust the "interim" to stick to the script.

DGRossetti · 21/06/2020 14:24

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Westminstenders: Where are we now?
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