Gove: "Post-Brexit talks: UK prepared to walk away in June if no progress"

[Miljea]

BBC News

Is this the Brexit you voted for, Leavers??

Seriously? Threatening the EU?

Text: "The UK has warned the EU it will walk away from trade talks in June unless there is a "broad outline" of a deal.

Michael Gove told MPs the UK wanted to strike a "comprehensive free trade agreement" in 10 months.

But the government would not accept any alignment with EU laws as the EU is demanding, with Mr Gove adding: "We will not trade away our sovereignty."

The EU has already set out its priorities ahead of the formal start of the talks on Monday."

One would almost think No Deal was precisely what we're heading for....

Maybe someone will come from the other side and tell us, in italics why this is great news.

But if the UK walks away now it loses all the deals it has
which would put at a massive disadvantage going forwards.

FUSOI - Blair did loads for the north, NHS spending boomed under Blair as did education and he had SureStart to try and break the link between poverty and low attainment.
But there is only so much the tax payer in better off areas of the UK tolerate

The bottom line is that re invigorating a free market capitalist economy such as the West has is extremely difficult - look how a much more regulated economy like Germany has struggled in the east....
This idea that building a railway or a road is suddenly going to make the North like the SE is just plain wrong, the unemployed in many of regions do not have skills to build roads, railways or hospitals, these require people with experience and skills in modern civil engineering, electrical IT etc etc.

Unless the causes of poverty are addressed and hope given back to communities, then nothing is going to change and even then, its a painfully slow process.

To continue with the divorce analogy there are acrimonious divorces where one side takes the other to the cleaners, or one party cheats about their (his) income. Then there are more civilised divorces, where both parties realise that the marriage was a mistake and split amicably.

Our Government, could have gone for the latter and we could now be well on the way to a mutually beneficial agreement. Instead they have decided that they want an acrimonious divorce.

jasjas1973

Phony Tony / Tory Blair

Did next to nothing.
Increased Spending on NHS, massive increses to Doctors Salaries
Education PFI and Enterprise, which is now being shown up for what it is.

Massive immigration creating hosuing / public services and keeping wages low. Moving people to self employed Zero Hour contracts etc.

Subidising business with cheap labour Housing Benefit, Child Allowance. Refused EU with regards keeping awges at local levels.
Removed 10% tax band
Implemented ESA and PIP assessment regime reevaluation and hire private company to do it all.
Spent a week on TV defending Banker that was paying less in percentage in Tax than his cleaner.
Knighted Philip Green for services to tax evasion and pensions
Small matter of war and number of people he killed.

Failed to address the issue with regards Council Tax inequalities between North & South.

Only so much the areas can do. LMAO.
London South East got way more investment than anywhere else.
Channel Tunnel
HS1
Cross Rail
Olympics
City
Underground etc.

Lets not forget teh cost to everyone else of the total disregard for regulation in the city.
Homelesness - nothing
Inequality - Nothing
Also his "On Yer Bike" speech about education / training and not blame anybody else (immigrants). If you close your eyes in could of easily been Norman Tebbit.

His recent mutterings around the election, remain etc. shows the utter comptempt he holds for traditional supporters and their views.

Not to worry he did well became a multimillioaire in very short order and then preaches to the poor.

It is far from coincidence that traditional voters Scotland and the North have left in their droves. Even Brown has admitted they ignored us. Phony Tony/Tory Blair is not well thought of by norml people in the let alone labour members.

FUSOI
We all know where we were.
Where are we going now?
If you look over your shoulder the whole time you will walk off a cliff.

Or as John Major once said:

"When your back's against the wall, you turn around and walk straight ahead."

ListeningQuietly

Well if you look at the contest and what they are saying and what the membership wants.
Remain / Rejoin
FOM
LGBT Rights
Antisemitism
More Immigration
Cheap Labour (Its the economy stupid)
It wasn't Brexit Stance
It was because it was winter

So as far as I can see nothings changed. So you tell me, its seems to be get power by default at some point.

If we tell people they are stupid often enough they will believe it, seems to be the cause.

The Tories always put their people first and if you happen to gain from the things they do its a bonus.

Labour put everyone else first.

There are many things to be done that will help the majority / most vulnerable, they are more interested in themselves and minority groups to bother.

FUSOI
Labour under Corbyn is both history and not relevant to the issue in hand.
What do people expect to happen in their constituencies by voting Tory?

FUSOI - Brown introduced the 10% rate and then took it away a year later....
The point you've ignored is that why should net tax payers in the south and SE subsidise the north? and to what end? the amounts spent in the north are massive and no matter how much is thrown at certain areas little changes,
However, in Liverpool, Manchester, Leeds and Sunderland things have improved beyond recognition from the 1980s.

I look at Cornwall, one of the poorest regions in europe and i'd like Cornwall to see some of the money that heads north each year.

But tbh the north can go F themselves, they voted for brexit and they can live with that, its not like they give a stuff for the MC's who pay their bills but didn't want to leave the EU.

A question I would like to ask: Where did the original Labour movement come from? Or the Chartist movement to get universal sufferage? It came from people getting active and fighting for what they want. It did not come from the Tories voluntarily giving up any power.

If you don't like the way that Labour let you down, then get involved, put the effort in to making the leaders listen to you. Put forward your own leaders.

I got actively involved in politics myself because I got sick of our Tory MP and resolved that I would do my utmost to get her out.

So jasjas, what your saying is that the high earners with their high earning jobs should have all their tax receipts spent on them!
The fact that all these high earning jobs have always centred around the South East won't be changing any time soon in your book is that correct?
So where is your social conscious? Did you vote Labour by any chance?

Mind you jasjas, Cornwall also voted Leave. One of their big problems is second home buyers from the south east and that is nothing to do with the EU.

why should net tax payers in the south and SE subsidise the north? and to what end? the amounts spent in the north are massive and no matter how much is thrown at certain areas little changes

Why should the better off subsidise the disadvantaged? Wouldn't have thought that was a question that needed asking in this day and age. Surely equality of opportunity is still a worthwhile ambition?

We've seen what happens when you leave whole chunks of voters behind - they vote with their teeth and bite the South East where it really hurts.

But they haven't yet bitten the south east where it hurts. Nor have they bitten the Cameron and Farage's of the world. Now that he's run away from politics leaving someone else to clear up is mess, Cameron is making shed loads of money. Why people want to pay him some much, is beyond me.

The other thing about negotiating a trade deal is that they often relate to other deals. For instance, the US will want to know the situation regarding the EU deal so they can best leverage the UK against the EU or vice versa, to ensure they get the best possible deal for themselves. I can see the US prevaricating until we reach the Jan 21 cliff before picking over our bones. Running two negotiations at once is folly and smacks of desperation. There is so much blood in the water, the US negotiating team must be looking like vampires by now.

This is a bit like fighting a battle on two fronts - usually a mistake, especially when you haven't got the troops to fight one battle.

They've hurt the SE by opposing them and, if Johnson is really set on this current path, by removing a big source of cheap labour. Ultimately they will have hurt themselves far more of course

jasjas1973
"But tbh the north can go F themselves, they voted for brexit and they can live with that, its not like they give a stuff for the MC's who pay their bills but didn't want to leave the EU."

So endith the lesson.

Nothing we had,t already figured out. We know thats why we voted the way we did.

Let the good times keep rolling.

The economy couldn't be in better shape.

Let the good times keep rolling.
The economy couldn't be in better shape.

I assume that's sarcasm.

Can we all please remind ourselves that it wasn't only working class northerners who voted for Brexit.
I get fed up of hearing that they have fucked over the hard working wealthy southerners.
Yes, a lot did vote for this whole sorry mess, I'm not denying that, but they are far from the only ones.

Many areas in the north are suffering from years of neglect from lack of vital spending by the government. People have been fed the lie that this is all the fault of the nasty EU, not austerity that has crippled communities. I will never agree with their vote, but sort of understand it.

I think we do need to remind ourselves that the EU may be large but it has had anaemia growth for the last 10 years (1.4%). It is basically the lowest area in the World.

There is an arrogance at the head of the EU that the ‘project’ is more important than the welfare of its citizens.

Certain sectors do quite well out of the EU as it is quite nepotistic.

Whether we can do better outside remains to be seen (and a pandemic won’t help anyone!). However, blind faith that a centrally run bureaucratic superstate will perform better than individual nation states is not well evidenced.

www.gfmag.com/global-data/economic-data/economic-dataworlds-gdp-growth-by-region

Whether we can do better outside remains to be seen (and a pandemic won’t help anyone!). However, blind faith that a centrally run bureaucratic superstate will perform better than individual nation states is not well evidenced

The EU isn't a federal state, its a million miles away from that, its also contributed to peace within nations in Europe.
The pandemic coming are way, makes Brexit the worst possible thing to be doing, the UK is just going to find itself all on its lonesome.

Yes, Double99 i used to have far more of a social conscience but Brexit has watered that down, time after time, i hear (from yourself too) that the MC s can fuck off with their Erasmus, live, work & retire in EU concerns BUT those very same people want the working middle classes to pay for them to have a slightly better life! not only with more of our taxes going to them but that we must put up with over crowded roads and trains too, its the same with the retired....want want want! whilst they have taken so much for themselves during their life times.

As can be seen with Flybe, the regions are the last thing on this Govt's mind.

ListeningQuietly

""Labour under Corbyn is both history and not relevant to the issue in hand.
What do people expect to happen in their constituencies by voting Tory?""

Bit like there manifesto really, nothing, no expectation whatsoever.

.................Be screwed again.......................... at some point.

Labour, well what can you say from the likely new leader Starmer last night and the leadership contest they have learnt nothing and steadfastly refuse to accept reality why people voted the way they did.
The issues goes beyond Corbyn and back over the last decades, its a culmulative effect.

Jasjas,

I am so tired of the peace argument. Again it is totally unevidemced.

Peace was brought to Europe courtesy of atomic weapons making the cost of major wars unthinkable.

The Euro crisis, on the other hand, triggered the most war like talk within many years.

Peace was brought to Europe courtesy of atomic weapons making the cost of major wars unthinkable

Nuclear weapons have (probably) prevented superpower wars but have not prevented relatively minor countries from solving disputes by aggression, of course its unevidenced, as is the nuclear weapons argument... we don't have a control group of countries to compare with!
Had Yugoslavia been in the EEC would there have been a war? we don't know for sure but there would have been a mechanism for talking.
Nations that trade together, are in a loose political union, tend not to fight one another and europe has had its longest period of peace, for centuries.

The founding reason for the EEC was to prevent war, trade in coal and steel, two essential commodities for war (in the 50s)