Gove: "Post-Brexit talks: UK prepared to walk away in June if no progress"

[Miljea]

BBC News

Is this the Brexit you voted for, Leavers??

Seriously? Threatening the EU?

Text: "The UK has warned the EU it will walk away from trade talks in June unless there is a "broad outline" of a deal.

Michael Gove told MPs the UK wanted to strike a "comprehensive free trade agreement" in 10 months.

But the government would not accept any alignment with EU laws as the EU is demanding, with Mr Gove adding: "We will not trade away our sovereignty."

The EU has already set out its priorities ahead of the formal start of the talks on Monday."

One would almost think No Deal was precisely what we're heading for....

Maybe someone will come from the other side and tell us, in italics why this is great news.

I disagree - I think the leading lights of the Leave campaign did and still do want as many benefits of the EU club as they find convenient, but they want them for free.

What of those EU regulations which were proposed by the UK - do we now scrap those because the rest of the EU thought they were a good idea? Do we scrap those embellishments we added to EU regulations?

The Leavers absolutely want to play on the golf course whenever they please, in flip-flops and shorts, taking as long as they like and leaving all their divots behind. They just don't want to pay membership or green fees.

Aren’t we really just back to who holds all the cards again?

It was always the EU and was always going to be. if you wanted some say over the regulations then it would have been better to stay in it.

Rafals,

As I pointed out upthread, the EU do not hold all the cards, far from it.

This is always posted as if it were an obvious truth. If it were the case, the EU would have told us ‘my way or the highway’ a long time ago. They don’t as we have a symbiotic relationship, we both need each other. (And with all the talk of ‘punishing the Uk’, they are not giving us a chance due to altruism).

The other point often posted is that we need their exports more than they need ours. Again, this is never evidenced nor in any sense obvious,

Especially at the current time it would be in nobody’s interest to close negotiations on principle.

we need their exports more than they need ours. Again, this is never evidenced nor in any sense obvious

EU states do not rely on exports from the UK to feed their citizens.
The UK relies on exports from the EU to feed its citizens.

Auld,

Using that type of logic, the EU should be going cap in hand to Russia based on its dependency on Russian gas.

The EU rely on the City to borrow the money that they need to do business.

Of course any source (be it food, fuel or finance) could be replaced over time but it would come at great frictional cost.

The EU is the dealer. They own the pack.
The UK wants to cash in its chips and carry on playing.

Mockers,

Empty words, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

The EU rely on the City to borrow the money that they need to do business.

Haven’t we already agreed to regulatory equivalence with the EU for finance in the PD? It’s not the same as complete alignment but I’d guess it reduces our ability to use it as a bargaining tool somewhat.

Added to which the City also relies on the EU. If it can’t seamlessly access it’s largest market, it might as well be in Dublin or Frankfurt. Which presumably would work well for the international banks and the EU, but less well for the U.K. given wealth the City brings to the U.K.

Rafals,

It really would not work well for the banks, other than theoretically. Trading floors are a diverse group of people with two things in common, money and the English language. That is why banks are (and will continue to be) in London, New York, Singapore and Hong Kong. All do business in English and all have places to spend money and a culture to serve the ‘masters of the universe’. I don’t like the banking culture but I do know it.

50% tax, a minuscule number moved, Paris desperately trying to position itself as an alternative financial centre and, again, same thing, some support functions (including legal) may move, the traders and managers...,highly unlikely.

Where I do agree and the point that I have made all along is the UK and EU can have a very profitable symbiotic relationship. If either side goes to war, both can make it very painful for one another.

Paris is never getting a look-in. Frankfurt, maybe. They speak better english than the Americans.

The EU set out their negotiating position in mid 2016
they have not changed
they do not need to change
If the UK wants a good trade deal with the EU, it will have to comply with EU rules.

It is astounding how many people do not grab that simple fact.

The EU has never signed a free trade deal with the USA because the EU negotiators are strong enough to call bullshit
weaker partners (including Canada) have not been able to do so.

Within the EU umbrella the UK is big
Outside the EU umbrella the UK is small

larry

You are talking about now, in the future, things can change, nothing will stagnate, Dublin in particular is building like there is no tomorrow.
It really does depend on whether the UK wishes to be a rival or a partner to the EU.

I suspect the rhetoric from the UK doesn't match the intention, especially if this covid virus causes a world recession or even a depression, that will change everything for both sides.

Really don't see the difficulty in seeing the UK's reliance on imports, both from europe and ROW, look around your house & garage - how much is uk produced?

Outside the EU the UK is small! what are you talking about Listen, what's rubbish.

Thats my understanding too DT99, look how Iran walked all over the UK or what the Russians did?
Our position as the worlds 5th or 6th largest economy is based on asset prices. per capita, i think we are 23rd.

Just look in your wardrobe to see how many of your clothes are made in the UK. At one time M & S and others prided themselves on making things here, but that was a long time ago.

Admittedly a lot of clothes are made in Turkey, Bangladesh, China and such like, so not products of the EU but such imports will still be affected by any fall in the value of Sterling.

Double
*Outside the EU the UK is small! what are you talking about Listen, what's rubbish.^
JCB are hostages to the world market
Dyson are hostages to the world market
the UK is hostage to the world market
why is that news

the UK is hostage to the world market

This is the thing. We managed during the War, the Leavers tell us, but at that time we still made many of the basic goods here. Clothes were made here, cutlery was made in Sheffield, domestic every day pottery was made in Stoke on Trent, shoes made in Northampton and on. Now some high class pottery is still made in Stoke, but not so much of your basic day to day mugs and plates.

Now the infrastructure has gone - it could come back, but it won't come back overnight and would have to be paid for.

Where I live is surrounded by crop fields. I increasingly view the fields as unpleasant deserts, even if hip high in barley, there's almost no animal life, and obviously no biodiversity.

I did see & hear a skylark today, so some hope for animals... over a fallow field.

Anyway, not sure I mind if we get a lot of rewilding.
Don't care about the 30k jobs in fishing.
Do care about the 345k jobs in The City.
I suspect the first blow up in negotiations will be lack of infrastructure to implement the Irish protocol. EU will refuse to barely talk until they see commitment from UK to agree to terms of the WA. There may be no progress for years beyond the squabble about this point.

WHO was the MNer who started talking, very early 2017, about Northern Ireland would scupper Brexit? I still want to know who that prescient person was, where is the thread they started.

The last few posts are very strange and typify the reductio ad absurdum type arguments made by the passionate remainers. They are the flip side of the brave new world passionate leavers believe in.

We are not at war with Europe, they are not going to cut off our supplies (or vice versa). Even WTO terms are not an embargo.

The World has gone in a direction where nation states are not self sufficient. Not sure if that is a good thing, especially in a pandemic, but it is where we are. Where would the EU be if Russia turned off the gas? But they don’t need a specific trade agreed for this not to happen, the Russians need to sell the gas and the EU are dependent upon it. As I said up thread: symbiosis.

As I also said many of our exports are invisibles. This does not mean that Europe does not need our bespoke insurance policies or legal or financial expertise.

I imagine reductio ad absurdum is a Harry Potter world spell that produces this.

Larry

Plenty of countries provide legal or financial expertise and the worlds largest markets are very protectionist in FS.

Look, we have left, i don't agree with it, its a ridiculous decision BUT i want us to do as well as we possibly can & that isn't by being a Singapore on Sea and a rival to the EU..... which is the message coming out from no10, we need to be partners, as we were pre EEC, e.g Concorde.

There really is no brave new world out there, that world has gone! so, we have been able to sell our wares around the world either within EU FTA's or on WTO terms, we ve done neither, so why is that going to change? we aren't suddenly going to revive the British car industry.

Larry
Do you understand the impact of customs clearance at the channel ports?
Even with the best will in the world it will MASSIVELY change how UK business has functioned for the last 30 years.

My DB back in 2016 said that NI and Gibraltar would scupper Brexit. I don't know if I passed that on.